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The cognitive differences between men and women

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Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#91
post #50

Similarly, some leftists claim that race is a social construct because there is more genetic variation within a race than across them. Except you have genetic tests that easily identify race: https://www.wired.com/2007/12/ps-dna/ and medical studies that indicate the race of patients studied, because it is a medically significant concept: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Different-Races-Are-Genetical... .

This is known as Lewontin's Fallacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewon...

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#92
post #80
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh golly, a quote taken without context. Now read it with context: > Philosophically, I don’t think we should do arbitrary social engineering of tech just to make it appealing to equal portions of both men and women. For each of these changes, we need principles reasons for why it helps Google; that is, we should be optimizing for Google—with Google’s diversity being a component of that. For example currently those t…

He claims men handle stress better. Working long hours is stressful. Working long hours is hard work. Therefore he believes women can't work as hard. Question to you is how do you interpret what he said?

> Therefore he believes women can't work as hard.

But that's not the author's conclusion, that's your conclusion. You are imagining what the author's thought process is and claiming your resulting conclusion is his resulting conclusion. How do you know how that's actually how he thinks? You don't have the ability to say that.

What the author does say, is that statistical evidence shows men and women have differing goals and life outcomes. Researchers have found that Men have a higher drive for status, which in the author's words "leads men into high pay/high stress jobs in tech and leadership". The author argues this could explain why we don’t see women in top leadership positions.

Nowhere does the author believe "women can't work as hard." He suggests that men are more willing than women to take stressful positions, which may explain sex differences in top leadership positions.

> how do you interpret what he said?

Honestly, I feel like you are focusing on minor nitpicks and ignoring the core points of the treatise. I view core goal of the treatise is to improve diversity of opinions at google. It's covered in the tl;dr section, which I did copy below.

* Google’s political bias has equated the freedom from offense with psychological safety, but shaming into silence is the antithesis of psychological safety.

* This silencing has created an ideological echo chamber where some ideas are too sacred to be honestly discussed.

* The lack of discussion fosters the most extreme and authoritarian elements of this ideology.

* Extreme: all disparities in representation are due to oppression

* Authoritarian: we should discriminate to correct for this oppression

* Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership. Discrimination to reach equal representation is unfair, divisive, and bad for business.

I do think it is easier for a critic to nitpick rather than address the author's core argument.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#93
post #92
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He claims men handle stress better. Working long hours is stressful. Working long hours is hard work. Therefore he believes women can't work as hard. Question to you is how do you interpret what he said?

> Therefore he believes women can't work as hard. But that's not the author's conclusion, that's your conclusion. You are imagining what the author's thought process is and claiming your resulting conclusion is his resulting conclusion. How do you know how that's actually how he thinks? You don't have the ability to say that. What the author does say, is that statistical evidence shows men and women have differing go…

It's not nitpicking, it's called connecting the dots. His main point is far less interesting than the points I outlined. He's using statistics an research as a tool for making excuses for the current situation. I don't believe he is genuine. It's like phrenology all over again.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#94
The brain is a physical, biological organ just like the heart, eyes, etc. So yes, just as there are minor physical differences between men and women in other ways, there are minor physical differences in the brain as well. Across a sufficiently large sample set, men will on average be slightly better at some things, and women will on average be slightly better at other things.

For the reactionary crowd, please note I said "minor differences" and "slightly better". There's a ton of overlap and much more similarity than difference. Also I want to be clear to separate biological differences from culturally trained differences. The things we do and are exposed to growing up certainly have an effect on brain development, just as they do on the rest of the body.

To further that last point, IMO it is almost certain that culturally assigned gender roles have played a part in our evolutionary biology. So this is not a discussion that can really be separated from the role of culture.

I hope that continuing research in this field helps educate people to see that men and women are far more alike than different.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#95
post #79
post #50

Similarly, some leftists claim that race is a social construct because there is more genetic variation within a race than across them. Except you have genetic tests that easily identify race: https://www.wired.com/2007/12/ps-dna/ and medical studies that indicate the race of patients studied, because it is a medically significant concept: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Different-Races-Are-Genetical... .

It's still a mystery to me how it is possible, from a merely logical point of view, that two groups are more diverse internally than between them. Especially (but not necessarily) when all the elements of one group are different from the element of the other group for at least one constant characteristic.

It's simple: there are just a few defining traits for each race: skin colour, hair, shape of the eyes and nose. There are just few genes that control those.

There are also hundreds or thousands of genes that control other traits, such as genetically conditioned diseases, immune system, IQ, physical endurance, character traits, etc.

That's why if you measure diversity by number of genes you can get such a seemingly paradoxical result.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#96
post #50

Similarly, some leftists claim that race is a social construct because there is more genetic variation within a race than across them. Except you have genetic tests that easily identify race: https://www.wired.com/2007/12/ps-dna/ and medical studies that indicate the race of patients studied, because it is a medically significant concept: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Different-Races-Are-Genetical... .

Which races are you talking about?

The ones leftover from 19th century pseudoscience?

Can you point me to a science paper that shows a genetic basis for these so-called races?

Not, notably, working back from genes to crazy theories. I could genetically detect ginger haired people, or people with green eyes, that doesn't make those races.

So what defines your races?

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#98
post #93
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Therefore he believes women can't work as hard. But that's not the author's conclusion, that's your conclusion. You are imagining what the author's thought process is and claiming your resulting conclusion is his resulting conclusion. How do you know how that's actually how he thinks? You don't have the ability to say that. What the author does say, is that statistical evidence shows men and women have differing go…

It's not nitpicking, it's called connecting the dots. His main point is far less interesting than the points I outlined. He's using statistics an research as a tool for making excuses for the current situation. I don't believe he is genuine. It's like phrenology all over again.

>His main point is far less interesting than the points I outlined.

To me, it seems like you aren't able to respond to his claim (suppression of views at Google), therefore you won't do so.

>It's like phrenology all over again

Comparing modern science to phrenology is a false equivalence, because phrenology was invented 200 years ago before the implementation of established scientific protocols, statistical sample sizes, and significance testing, peer review before publishing. The same issue applies to psychoanalysis, it's not backed up by statistics.

>He's using statistics an research as a tool for making excuses for the current situation.

The glaring problem with your view is that these scientific studies:

* Are performed using well established scientific methods

* Have very large (N>500,000) sample sizes

* Meet the standard for statistically significant by orders of magnitude

* Were subject to peer review

* Passed peer review and were published in reputable scientific journals

* Are replicated in other studies done by independent scientists using their own sets of data

I.e. they're well done and follow the modern science method, the same methodology we use to find drugs that cure diseases or report the discovery of new atomic particles. It's extremely well established, and agreed upon by tens of thousands of scientists. And if you do read the scientific papers, they do strongly support the conclusions of sex-based differences in the brain.

His position is backed by science. Yours is not, and you now you have resorted to claiming the science is irrelevant. It's very sad to see educated people make science-denial claims like yours.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Men are more physically violent I'm not entirely sure that if we take into account all types of violence that this would still be the case. Latest studies into domestic abuse also hint that there is almost equal parity between men and women as both the victim and the abuser.

Actually, there is some research showing women are equally physically violent in domestic situations. Men just go to jail more. But, anyone will point out that if black men go to jail more than white men, it means there is a systemic bias against black men.

According to Dr. B. H. Hoff's (2012, National Study CDC/DOJ) Report on the National Violence Against Women Survey (notice there's no report on violence against men as anyone who spent money on such research would never be funded again - that's not an assumption, it's spelled out in print), 42.3% of victimized men, over 2 million men, are subjected to "severe physical violence" every year.

Re: The cognitive differences between men and women

#100
Seems like the "google memo guy" just expressed many of the view points of the youtube famous psychologist and UofT professor Jordan Peterson. I'm not sure if its related, but Jordan's channel was shut down for a day for an unexplained reason, fueling many conspiracy theories.
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