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Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

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Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#91

Post by visarga »

eropple wrote: post #68
dijit wrote: post #6

I seem to be the only person in the comments that agrees with the article. But I'm not American. I will absolutely not be alone with a female as a male if I can help it. One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over. Conversely; as a male a female is quite likely weaker than I am, thus the risk to them is that I cause them injury or force them to do something. Which is a horrendous thought an…

I didn't downvote you, but your post is hyperbolic and creates barriers for women out of unrealized, unrealistic fear. In particular: > One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over. This flies in the face of of...well, just about everything, in most industrialized countries. Serial sexual harassers get away with it for a long time and men who out-and-out assault women do to; somewhere almost…

Maybe the feminists will realize how much indirect damage this policy of fear creates. Making women so self conscious and class-struggle conscious is affecting good men and making them change their attitude in a way. Suspecting all men of being potential rapists is not a good way to build communication and work/learn together.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#92

Post by dang »

visarga wrote: post #91
eropple wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you, but your post is hyperbolic and creates barriers for women out of unrealized, unrealistic fear. In particular: > One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over. This flies in the face of of...well, just about everything, in most industrialized countries. Serial sexual harassers get away with it for a long time and men who out-and-out assault women do to; somewhere almost…

Maybe the feminists will realize how much indirect damage this policy of fear creates. Making women so self conscious and class-struggle conscious is affecting good men and making them change their attitude in a way. Suspecting all men of being potential rapists is not a good way to build communication and work/learn together.

Would you please stop posting ideological battle comments to HN? This is not the kind of discussion we want here.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#93

Post by dang »

dijit wrote: post #6

I seem to be the only person in the comments that agrees with the article. But I'm not American. I will absolutely not be alone with a female as a male if I can help it. One accusation of ill-doing on my part and my life is essentially over. Conversely; as a male a female is quite likely weaker than I am, thus the risk to them is that I cause them injury or force them to do something. Which is a horrendous thought an…

> EDIT: downvotes? Really? Remind me never to air my concerns in public again.

The HN guidelines explicitly ask you not to post downvote complaints, so please don't. It's tedious.

A reasonable thing to do when you get downvoted is to reflect on why your comment might have merited that. If you don't want to do that work, fine; but please don't channel that unwillingness into off-topic commentary.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#94

Post by xiaoma »

rufford wrote: post #29

It's a cultural issue with Americans. There seems to be a belief there that equality is not really equality but a battle of the genders imo. Women and men alike obsess over the differences and have very traditional dating structures/marriages. Gender equality in Europe makes the states look like a joke

I've noticed a huge difference between China (and the greater Chinese speaking community throughout Asia) and the US, too. I also see a lot of hostility between the sexes in the US. Part of that is due to differences in how people use social media for public shaming and to share "outrage porn", but even in offline interactions there are just fundamentally different expectations.

It's absolutely striking how few American couples pour their resources together and run a business together. There are still some family businesses, but it seems like most are run by immigrants. To me, it seems like such a natural thing to band together with and feel you are on a team with the person you've decided to spend your life with. Of course not everyone can be an entrepreneur, but it also looks uncommon in the US for people to significantly invest in their partner's careers either. The focus is more personal.

Us vs them has some problems with nepotism and cases of corruption, but it does a lot better than "us vs us", IMO.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#95

Post by SCdF »

lqdc13 wrote: post #70
eulo__ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such an irrational fear, like worrying about getting hit by lightning on the way to the shops. Also goodluck convincing anyone that I sexually assaulted someone. People wouldn't be able to take you seriously after a claim like that.

How is it irrational? According to the UN, 40-50% of women in Europe experienced unwanted sexual advancement at work[1]. That is, statistically speaking without breaking it down by industry, close to half of women at your workplace are getting harassed and could report the perpetrator. For comparison, lighting kills 0.000017% of the population per year. [1] http://endviolence.un.org/pdf/pressmaterials/unite_the_situa…

> That is, statistically speaking without breaking it down by industry, close to half of women at your workplace are getting harassed and could report the perpetrator.

That is a good point! Were I a perpetrator I too would be worried about that..

Seriously though, what are you trying to say here? Because half of women have been harassed at work you're worried about being alone in the room with one because, you're afraid you'll harass one? Or because you think those reports are false and you'll be accused as well?

Talking to women, ~50% seems like a conservative figure for % who have been (legitimately[1]) harassed at work

[1] Based on their side of the story, I am not a lawyer, police detective, truth detector or omnipresent inter-dimensional being

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#96

Post by SCdF »

swiley wrote: post #37
speedplane wrote: post #31

Two surprises about this article: 1 - 25% of women think it's inappropriate to have a work meeting with a man. 2 - 41% of men think it's appropriate to have a drink one-on-one with a women.

Yeah the drink thing is definitely inappropriate.

This article and thread have been fascinating to me. I am from NZ, so maybe this is a US-cultural thing?

The idea that getting a drink with a women-not-your-spouse being inappropriate is so crazy and weird to me! Do you not have female friends? How do you spend time with them?

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#97

Post by visarga »

dang wrote: post #92
visarga wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the feminists will realize how much indirect damage this policy of fear creates. Making women so self conscious and class-struggle conscious is affecting good men and making them change their attitude in a way. Suspecting all men of being potential rapists is not a good way to build communication and work/learn together.

Would you please stop posting ideological battle comments to HN? This is not the kind of discussion we want here.

> not the kind of discussion we want here

Apparently you are an admin here. Sorry, I didn't realize you were representing me as well. I'll make sure to avoid the topic from now on, it doesn't rime with PC. I'll make sure to only debate in agreement.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#98

Post by learc83 »

mc32 wrote: post #43
manmal wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you avoid being the type of person a thief targets? Is it a brawny/threatening look, or just not using an iPhone in public?

Not the OP but when I'm overseas I try to blend in in terms of attire and so on (dress down and don't be flashy). I mean, dress like normal locals dress. Basically don't stick out as a shining target.

Doesn't work when you're 6'5" white guy traveling in most countries outside of North America and Europe.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#99

Post by lqdc13 »

tnecniv wrote: post #89
lqdc13 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it irrational? According to the UN, 40-50% of women in Europe experienced unwanted sexual advancement at work[1]. That is, statistically speaking without breaking it down by industry, close to half of women at your workplace are getting harassed and could report the perpetrator. For comparison, lighting kills 0.000017% of the population per year. [1] http://endviolence.un.org/pdf/pressmaterials/unite_the_situa…

What is advancement defined as and how is it different from harassment / assault? The link does not provide a definition.

Precisely. I don't know how it's defined.

I know there is a bill called C-16 in Canada. That is if you get the gender of someone wrong 2x, you may be in a world of trouble. Since gender is such a big part of the English language, for me it's easy to get it wrong by accident especially with someone you just met. This is just one in a million things that one might get wrong.

Re: Not Just Mike Pence. Americans Are Wary of Being Alone with the Opposite Sex

#100

Post by bobwaycott »

learc83 wrote: post #78

When I was in college I was a team lead at Best Buy for a while. I was in charge of a mostly female team of cashiers, and I was alone with them in the cash office frequently while they counted their tills. I made one of the cashiers mad by reprimanding her, and she decided to get back at me by claiming that I grabbed her and shook her while we were in the cash office. I never touched her, and luckily we still had vid…

Oddly enough, I also experienced some weirdness at Best Buy. Worked on the early version of the geek squad (back in 2001 before they had cars and it was just a bunch of computer nerds at a counter). Female store manager made some pretty overt advances, which I declined. I’d had a scheduled vacation the next week. Came back from vacation to learn I’d been fired for inappropriate behavior with the female manager, by the female manager. Nobody wanted to listen to my side of the story or take it seriously. She was still there years later when I happened to go in to buy something.
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