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Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

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Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you play games, do you actively not explore how to make the rules work to the best of your ability? The problem is not companies "optimizing", it's that the tax code is so complicated that they can do it in the first place.

Nice try, tax code may not be the best, but they're not playing a game with unfair rules anyhow. It's just that they have the manpower and financial mass to step on the line. A citizen trying to "play" the same game who be hit hard by the system. Here's the issue.

This is literally only due to complexity of the tax code. I don't understand how we're not saying the same thing? The citizen is being a rational actor by not stepping on the line of the tax system, and so is the corporation playing the other role.

Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice try, tax code may not be the best, but they're not playing a game with unfair rules anyhow. It's just that they have the manpower and financial mass to step on the line. A citizen trying to "play" the same game who be hit hard by the system. Here's the issue.

This is literally only due to complexity of the tax code. I don't understand how we're not saying the same thing? The citizen is being a rational actor by not stepping on the line of the tax system, and so is the corporation playing the other role.

I see, still not 100% agreeing but I see. Simpler code ensures equality (no need for manpower to use it)

Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem with "significantly over-pay" is that you end up with incentives for people to quit other low paying jobs and switch, which will force those employers to either significantly increase wages to match or more likely, automate the job. I see absolutely nothing wrong here. What's the problem?

If they automate it, where do the unemployed go? They took that job because it was the best they could get.

This is true of work generally, though. Employeers always have the incentive of automation, because they don't pay wages from the goodness of their hearts. You can't feel bad for encouraging automation, and it's a problem we're going to have to deal with as a society at some point.

Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they automate it, where do the unemployed go? They took that job because it was the best they could get.

This is true of work generally, though. Employeers always have the incentive of automation, because they don't pay wages from the goodness of their hearts. You can't feel bad for encouraging automation, and it's a problem we're going to have to deal with as a society at some point.

Worker Productivity in the United States is at an all time high while Wages have stagnated and the Labor Force Participation rate is at a 39 year low.

This is a genuine choke-point problem of upward mobility intentionally designed and executed by interested parties and it needs some forceful unwinding. See Also: Robber Barons.

Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#95

Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) concept and significantly over-pay the employees on the condition half goes into savings accounts for family use or to pay down debts of some sort. Employ it as a method to give uneducated (HS degree) or underemployed (able bodied with Bachelors and $8/hr job), rehabilitate and early-release incarcerated US Citizens and put them to work in infrastructure needs. So, thi…

>Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) So you want to put a bunch of poor people in labor camps. Inflation adjusted wages of the CCC works out to about $550/mo. If they get injured on the job they will be sent home with nothing. >over-pay the employees In a country with a minimum wage, how do you know they're not already being overpaid? >on the condition half goes into savings accounts for family use or to…

If you connected the first two points, you'd realize the whole "Living Wage" hate by Ayn Rand acolytes who say stuff like "How do you know people on minimum wage aren't already overpaid?" means that the inflation adjusted number doesn't mean shit.

The CPI is corrupt. The 4% unemployment rate is contingent on fudging the numbers so the Eligible Workforce is at 39 year lows, comparable to the early 1980s. None of this math adds up, and you've only just poked at a few things with a stick.

Not once did you offer an alternative or a better idea. Show me what you have in mind that can get people back to work. Explain to me how the wealth gap in the United States can be solved with your philosophical outlook, and I'll be really interested to see what you come up with.

I'm not saying I have confidence in your ability to actually answer this challenge, but I'm not above waiting to watch logic flounder.

Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#96

Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) concept and significantly over-pay the employees on the condition half goes into savings accounts for family use or to pay down debts of some sort. Employ it as a method to give uneducated (HS degree) or underemployed (able bodied with Bachelors and $8/hr job), rehabilitate and early-release incarcerated US Citizens and put them to work in infrastructure needs. So, thi…

Totally agree! This is why I always skeptically look at any philanthropic announcements.... if billionaires like Gates, Buffet, Zuck, Bezos simply funded the above - it would go way further, and have long asting effect on the future of this nation in so many profound ways. Rather than "give away half their wealth" - why not do the above now and actually see it change the surface of the nation? --- I am getting involv…

Thanks for the comment and musing regarding the topic, I appreciate feeling some common thinking. Really, it's kind of lonely sometimes, even when it seems like people agree - do they really?

That's why I'm kind of laughing nobody seemed to come out and directly ask:

>Okay, how are you going to pay for it?

I have an answer, one that would be Boo'd to oblivion. A progressive Estate Tax bracket system of 0-30-85% according to full-worth structures (Trusts, Offshore, wtf-ever-we-gonna-find-that-money) because that'll level out the wealth gap right soon and fund plenty of public works projects.

The kind of maintenance that is needed because those in the top 0.01% can afford to teach their kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. That's what they say to poor people all the time, and they didn't grow up with billionaire parents. The pendulum must swing back.

Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#97
post #64
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with "significantly over-pay" is that you end up with incentives for people to quit other low paying jobs and switch, which will force those employers to either significantly increase wages to match or more likely, automate the job. An another alternative is that there is a such a huge demand for jobs in new CCC that not everyone can be given one. How do you figure out who to give the jobs to? I would be…

> automate the job This is never a bad thing. The only bad thing is if your society doesn't account for the potential of automation and just leaves the unemployable destitute. But that is a political problem, not an economic one - being able to produce without any labor is one of the greatest accomplishments of economic development you can possibly have. It does reflect that, in most western countries (and the US in…

Something I put together on this about a decade ago listing about fifty ways society could address this issue (both functional ways and dysfunctional ways for comparison and contrast): http://pdfernhout.net/beyond-a-jobless-recovery-knol.html "This article explores the issue of a "Jobless Recovery" mainly from a heterodox economic perspective. It emphasizes the implications of ideas by Marshall Brain and others that improvements in robotics, automation, design, and voluntary social networks are fundamentally changing the structure of the economic landscape. It outlines towards the end four major alternatives to mainstream economic practice (a basic income, a gift economy, stronger local subsistence economies, and resource-based planning). These alternatives could be used in combination to address what, even as far back as 1964, has been described as a breaking "income-through-jobs link". This link between jobs and income is breaking because of the declining value of most paid human labor relative to capital investments in automation and better design. Or, as is now the case, the value of paid human labor like at some newspapers or universities is also declining relative to the output of voluntary social networks such as for digital content production (like represented by this document). It is suggested that we will need to fundamentally reevaluate our economic theories and practices to adjust to these new realities emerging from exponential trends in technology and society."

Re: Jeff Bezos tweet seeking philanthropic ideas draws 42,000 replies

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) So you want to put a bunch of poor people in labor camps. Inflation adjusted wages of the CCC works out to about $550/mo. If they get injured on the job they will be sent home with nothing. >over-pay the employees In a country with a minimum wage, how do you know they're not already being overpaid? >on the condition half goes into savings accounts for family use or to…

If you connected the first two points, you'd realize the whole "Living Wage" hate by Ayn Rand acolytes who say stuff like "How do you know people on minimum wage aren't already overpaid?" means that the inflation adjusted number doesn't mean shit. The CPI is corrupt. The 4% unemployment rate is contingent on fudging the numbers so the Eligible Workforce is at 39 year lows, comparable to the early 1980s. None of this…

80% of the world's population lives on less than $10/day. In a more globalized economy American workers are increasingly going to be competing with those people for jobs. This is true even if you're not directly competing. Let's say you have a job as a waiter at a restaurant. Clearly a person in India can't take that job. But the fact that other low income positions have been transferred to India/China/Mexico means that the labor pool competing for the wait staff position has increased, which should push down wages. Let's not show our hubris by lamenting the woes of the American poor who are often in fact in the global 1%.

>Not once did you offer an alternative or a better idea. Show me what you have in mind that can get people back to work.

Get rid of the minimum wage. Replace the corporate and income tax with a VAT sales tax. Don't charge the VAT on exports. If you can't do that, at least get rid of regressive taxes like Social Security that transfer wealth from the lower classes to the upper middle class. Open free trade with any country on the planet, even countries we hate, and even if they put tariffs on our goods. End the government monopoly on education by using a voucher system. Over time, reduce total government (federal + local) spending down to 15% of GPD max, preferably more like 10%. Transition regulations from things that specify a solution to taxes on a problem. For example, instead of regulating every car needs a catalytic converter, tax the pollution that a car produces. Maybe someone will invent something even better than a catalytic converter.

>Explain to me how the wealth gap in the United States can be solved with your philosophical outlook, and I'll be really interested to see what you come up with.

I don't care one iota about how much money a wealthy person has because in macro-economics, wealth is not a zero sum game. Not to mention, the premise you're working under just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I buy an iPad from Tim Cook because I value an iPad more than I value the $400 I've got in my pocket. Tim Cook sells me the iPad because he values my $400 more than he values the iPad he's got. But now, because a bunch of other people also bought iPads from Tim Cook I feel like I deserve some sort of rebate in the form of forcibly taking some of Tim Cook's money? How does that make any sense at all?

Instead of being concerned about some people having more than me, I am interested in my personal moral responsibility to help my fellow man. So far as poverty is concerned, there has never been a more effective machine for eliminating poverty than the free enterprise system and the free market. Socializing what you might call solutions to problems with poverty may temporarily help the people you're looking at in the now, but you're robbing from the future by stifling the rising tide of innovation that brings up the standard of living for everyone.

I won't say it's easy but avoiding poverty is fairly simple: graduate high school, maintain employment, and don't have children out of wedlock. That's obviously not a 100% guarantee, but those 3 things, by far, have the strongest correlations with poverty of anything else you'll find. Our social welfare systems incentivize people not to maintain employment, to keep pumping out children they can't afford, and to get easy divorces which breaks up families and increases poverty. If you do nothing else but get rid of those things, you'll reduce poverty significantly in a generation.

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