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I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

theguardian.com

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Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#91

Post by rhino369 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #37
pillowkusis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the challenge is that literally nobody is incentivized to make changes to this system. the situation is really bad for politicians. A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Even one wrong vote for improving the prison system will get you labeled as "soft on crime," a dangerous liability for Democrats and nearly a death sentence for Republicans. Every change you…

> A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Can you say more about this? It sounds like you think that's normal in your community, to think that way. That's not how I hear the people around me talking about prison. I think most of us would support a candidate who talked about rehabilitation. I worry that by trotting out this old meme as if it were an permanent fi…

Part of the problem is that even thought a lot of people generally agree that we are too harsh on criminals, they don't stick to that viewpoint when the rubber meets the road during situations they care about.

People who are liberal on sentencing get angry if short sentences are handed down in rape or financial crime cases.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#92

Post by rhino369 »

arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

>Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much derided for their lavish prisons, it's 20%. [2]

You can spin this and say that American criminals need to be locked up because they just cause more crime in general.

Some see that 76% figure and conclude prison makes them worse.

Others see it and think, well these are the bad apples, keep them locked up.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#93

Post by jernfrost »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #77
coldtea wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also point fingers and lip service democracy globally, while having their bases all around the globe, meddling with sovereign countries abroad, helping topple legitimate governments, and funding / being cozy with all kinds of scum, from Suharto and the Shah, to Pinochet and the saudis (not to mention arming and befriending half of today's militant islamists, including the celebrated in the 80s Taliban). But that…

But that wasn't always the deal. The US up until 1900 was not the top dog. Yeah, the US has a lot of flaws that need to be reformed, but that doesn't make it any different than any more country in history, it makes it exactly like them. It's not an American problem, it's a human problem. When we understand that and stop pointing we'll all be better off.

I strongly disagree. The US is the most powerful country EVER in human history. It has the ability to invade and influence any country on the planet. No country in the past really had that ability. When Great Britain rules much of the world, they were no superpower like the US today. There were countless countries in Europe which could all challenge Britain militarily. Back then there was many great powers. Today there is only ONE superpower and that is the US.

What is unique about the US historically is that they have always claimed to be spreading freedom while frequently doing the exact opposite. Of course it is really just a new twist to the old western excuse for invading: we are civilizing your, or: we are bringing christianity to the poor masses.

Since the US is the main power today and it is a democracy, it is VERY important to protest the US and make Americans aware of the role the US plays world politics. Today very few Americans know about the countless abuses, power grabs, and human rights abuses the US has engaged in the last 100 years. Instead all around US schools American school children are served up propaganda about the US being the best, freest and most human country ever in existence.

How can America ever change if it keeps brainwashing its population like this?

At least the Germans owned up to their atrocities.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#94

Post by pnathan »

hellcow wrote: post #24
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

You're absolutely right. Looking for a solution here, the central problem with the US prison system seems to be the incentive structure. Private prisons are paid based on how many inmates they have. Prisons are therefore incentivized to keep people as long as possible, and ensure that if a convict is ever released, that person commits another crime quickly and winds up back in prison. Instead, what if the state paid…

Private prisons have serious issues, but public ones have issues as well; often they are underfunded, which allowed the private company world to get involved to offer a service for cheaper costs.

I would suggest the solution is properly around the question of the willingness of the US taxpayer to adequately fund the government services.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#95

Post by mbroncano »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #77
coldtea wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also point fingers and lip service democracy globally, while having their bases all around the globe, meddling with sovereign countries abroad, helping topple legitimate governments, and funding / being cozy with all kinds of scum, from Suharto and the Shah, to Pinochet and the saudis (not to mention arming and befriending half of today's militant islamists, including the celebrated in the 80s Taliban). But that…

But that wasn't always the deal. The US up until 1900 was not the top dog. Yeah, the US has a lot of flaws that need to be reformed, but that doesn't make it any different than any more country in history, it makes it exactly like them. It's not an American problem, it's a human problem. When we understand that and stop pointing we'll all be better off.

Actually it is. You see, pointing out that every man is potentially a murderer doesn't excuse those that are actual murderers. Why is it acceptable to do wrong based on others doing the same? I certainly teach my kids otherwise.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#96

Post by rhino369 »

coldtea wrote: post #13
robschia wrote: post #3

I don't even know how to start. The US present themselves as paragons of freedom, and then they blatantly violate every kind of basic human right.

They also point fingers and lip service democracy globally, while having their bases all around the globe, meddling with sovereign countries abroad, helping topple legitimate governments, and funding / being cozy with all kinds of scum, from Suharto and the Shah, to Pinochet and the saudis (not to mention arming and befriending half of today's militant islamists, including the celebrated in the 80s Taliban). But that…

The Taliban isn't really the Mujaheddin that America funded in the 80's. After the Taliban took over most of Afghanistan, many former Mujaheddin joined the government, but it's leaders were distinctly not Mujaheddin.

In fact, the CIA contacts from the 80's were reactivated after 9/11 because, for the most part, they were in charge of the Northern Alliance forces that were battling the taliban in the civil war.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#97

Post by zer0tonin »

emodendroket wrote: post #14
jMyles wrote: post #4

The prison system in general, and solitary confinement (and other forms of emotional torture) in particular is a good enough reason in my opinion to dismantle the state and start over. And it's only one of about 4-5 good reasons right now. Let's do it.

...And replace it with what?

Self-managed communes.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#98

Post by Brakenshire »

narrator wrote: post #36
pillowkusis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the challenge is that literally nobody is incentivized to make changes to this system. the situation is really bad for politicians. A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Even one wrong vote for improving the prison system will get you labeled as "soft on crime," a dangerous liability for Democrats and nearly a death sentence for Republicans. Every change you…

The politicians know that the media can take one criminal act and magnify it to the most important incident of the decade. The most prominent example of this was the Polly Klaas murder in California in the early 90s. This one criminal act was magnified to the level of a major terrorist attack and kicked off three strikes and a major prison building and imprisonment boom that lasted two decades. It also led to a wave…

The media are responding to their own incentives, you might as well pass the blame again onto the readers/watchers. It's a structural problem, no one group is to blame. I'd say one major factor is the US seems to be mostly devoid of a shame/duty based culture. People need to be driven to act within generalizable moral codes across the whole society. The idea that if the market supports it and it is within the law then it is beyond criticism is in my opinion not sustainable.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#99

Post by TallGuyShort »

arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

>> As satisfying as it may be for victims

There are other reasons to reform the prison system too, but we as a people really need to work on this one. I know a few people who have been wronged in a big way. One of them (perhaps the most wronged - lost a child to a repeat DUI offender) publicly forgave the offender and didn't even show up to see him be sentenced. They're the only ones that seem to have been able to move on in any meaningful way. The others talk about nothing but what happened to them and were seriously depressed for a long time, even when they were long past the direct consequences of what happened. We all need to be willing to let things go a little more - for everyone's good.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#100

Post by Broken_Hippo »

nieksand wrote: post #35
mallaidh wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a week is too long, the effects on the brain can be measured by EEG within a few days, specifically a state of stupor and delirium. The psychological effects are dangerous and permanent.

How would you deal with an inmate that murders or rapes another inmate?

Design the prisons so that folks have private showers and room to begin with. Make sure the environment doesn't invite such behavior. Treat the prisoners like humans.

If it still happens, one can design a segregation unit that isn't as inhumane. One can lose a bit of freedom or gain some by not doing such things. Actual freedoms, like being able to move to a lesser security place. And so on.

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