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Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

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Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#91

Post by root_axis »

drcode wrote: post #85
root_axis wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's the ethereum proof of stake code that will go live on ethereum sometime this year Until it goes live, it's vaporware. The issue isn't "can proof of stake code be written" the question is "will eth continue to function safely and correctly using a proof of stake system"? We'll talk when it hits production. > The UN uses an ethereum app to send aid to Syrian refugees via vouchers: The details are not really cl…

> Until it goes live, it's vaporware. That's a ridiculous definition. So nobody can advertise that they plan to add a novel feature to a piece of software, even if the code already exists in draft form, without being labeled a vaporware peddler?

The standards are higher for the cryptocurrency sphere which is notorious for extreme hyperbole, tons of hype, and poor results to match it, especially when you're talking about code that is supposed to solve the single most difficult problem of blockchain currencies.

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#92

Post by daxorid »

gnarcoregrizz wrote: post #78
SCAQTony wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhalePanda in not an economist, not a digital coin developer, nor a professional coin analyst. At his website he describes himself as: "...I’m a Belgian Brand/Online Marketing/UX consultant with a passion for Bitcoin..." https://twitter.com/WhalePanda?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwca... Obviously partial to bitcoin but has no more "street cred" that I do: "a California fine artist, UI designer, with a passion for Ethere…

He also pulled off an insider trading stunt with the Monero maintainer. I'm not sure why people listen to this dude

I assume you're referring to Fluffy's announcement stunt?

There is neither evidence, nor motive, for "insider trading".

All he did was troll the moneychanging/parasite class, which is a beautiful thing.

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#93

Post by daveguy »

drcode wrote: post #85
root_axis wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's the ethereum proof of stake code that will go live on ethereum sometime this year Until it goes live, it's vaporware. The issue isn't "can proof of stake code be written" the question is "will eth continue to function safely and correctly using a proof of stake system"? We'll talk when it hits production. > The UN uses an ethereum app to send aid to Syrian refugees via vouchers: The details are not really cl…

> Until it goes live, it's vaporware. That's a ridiculous definition. So nobody can advertise that they plan to add a novel feature to a piece of software, even if the code already exists in draft form, without being labeled a vaporware peddler?

I think root_axis draws an important distinction between normal software and crypto currency software. Until it is live it hasn't been proven whether it's resilient or requires a hard fork.

That could be worse than vaporware. There probably needs to be a term for touting a feature that may turn out to be like the DAO.

SchrodingerWare?

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#94

Post by danmaz74 »

cap3 wrote: post #43

the only way to be in on ether is to hold it. That's true for individuals and for large institutions joining the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance. Behind the scenes, large institutions are buying up Ether and anticipating that it will become a part of the financial system (either that or it will become a shadow financial system, and they are therefore incentivized to be early adopters). There's no way to short ether or b…

> There's no way to short ether or bitcoin

There very are ways to do so, at least against other cryptocurrencies.

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#95

Post by drtillberg »

brianwawok wrote: post #45
avaer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices continually rising is an argument for how this _is_ tulips. The valid counterargument would be that the tulips are largely being used for something other than trading tulips.

Tulips have SOME intrinsic value. If doomsday comes, the world is over.. a toolip can be planted outside your house and it looks a little bit more pretty. Or maybe you can eat it. Gold has SOME intrinsic value. It is very good for certain applications, I believe trace amounts are used in compute parts. Worst case you can make something shiny to look at, that will be rust proof and easy to shape. What is the intrinsic…

Gold glitters like pyrite, but the latter is not scarce and therefore not valuable. For both gold and ETH, it is scarcity, in combination with the network effect, that is critical.

For gold, scarcity is enforced by laws of nature, which encourages networks to treat it as valuable. For BTC, is there a similar constraint? I'm pretty sure the tokens can be reverse-transmutated by the software that counts it. This is true for all cryptocurrencies. Gold today and pyrite (or worse) tomorrow, which would make all of them unsuitable as long-term stores of value.

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#97

Post by pdog »

komaromy wrote: post #33
pdog wrote: post #17

It's pretty clear what's happening. Ethereum (ETH) is rising because people are buying into initial coin offerings (ICOs). They aren't holding ETH, so they don't care about the price of ETH rising in terms of Bitcoin (BTC) or dollars. The ICOs are the significant holders of ETH. They haven't sold their ETH because 1) the price of ETH is still rising rapidly, 2) they don't yet need to access the funds for development,…

What % of all ETH is currently held in ICO accounts?

There are approximately 92 million ETH outstanding. It's much harder to measure market liquidity on the various exchanges and over-the-counter (OTC) markets.

With hundreds of ICOs popping up, it's difficult to say what impact they have on the market. Bancor raised approximately 400,000 ETH in their recent ICO, or 0.4% of all ETH outstanding, and the BAT sale raised 156,250 ETH. Prior to the attack, the DAO had attracted over 11 million ETH, or nearly 14% of all ETH outstanding at the time.

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#98

Post by njarboe »

brianwawok wrote: post #45
avaer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices continually rising is an argument for how this _is_ tulips. The valid counterargument would be that the tulips are largely being used for something other than trading tulips.

Tulips have SOME intrinsic value. If doomsday comes, the world is over.. a toolip can be planted outside your house and it looks a little bit more pretty. Or maybe you can eat it. Gold has SOME intrinsic value. It is very good for certain applications, I believe trace amounts are used in compute parts. Worst case you can make something shiny to look at, that will be rust proof and easy to shape. What is the intrinsic…

People want to have something as "a formal token of delayed reciprocal altruism (Richard Dawkins)" and these tokens have probably existed as long as language (~100k years) first starting as shells of a specific size and species. The first DDG hit of this phrase[1] brings up an essay that looks interesting, although I have not had time to read it yet. Gold and silver (and credit based on them) have been that token for most societies since around 600BC. Fiat currencies have been used but flame out spectacularly. I don't think one has lasted more than 100 years. Private gold was made illegal in the US in 1933 and the dollar debased. State exchanges of gold and currency at a fixed rate ended in 1971 with the dollar going full fiat. People are looking for the new token.

[1] http://nakamotoinstitute.org/reciprocal-altruism-in-the-theo...

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#99

Post by wyldfire »

anothercomment wrote: post #83
jraines wrote: post #55

The ICO mania definitely contributes to this, but so does the worry about a Bitcoin split. I've read a lot about it and could not give you a coherent answer of what is likely to happen and what would be the impact if it does or does not happen. So people like me (probably in top 5% of knowledge among Bitcoin holders about the technical aspects) put holdings in other coins to wait and see. The coins that stand to bene…

But even with a Bitcoin split, what would be the problem? You would simply double your coins (kind of).

It would damage the brand of being the premier cryptocoin, having the most marketplace acceptance, secured by the most hashing power. Regarding hashing power -- I don't know; can the UASF and the original chain be merge-mined?

Re: Why Ethereum is outpacing Bitcoin

#100

Post by drcode »

root_axis wrote: post #91
drcode wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until it goes live, it's vaporware. That's a ridiculous definition. So nobody can advertise that they plan to add a novel feature to a piece of software, even if the code already exists in draft form, without being labeled a vaporware peddler?

The standards are higher for the cryptocurrency sphere which is notorious for extreme hyperbole, tons of hype, and poor results to match it, especially when you're talking about code that is supposed to solve the single most difficult problem of blockchain currencies.

I agree with you insofar that cryptocurrency protocols involve economic game theoretic challenges that are impossible to fully validate without running in full production. It's 100% fair to remain skeptical of POS until we see a successful launch of the system... but that's different than saying something is "vaporware".
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