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America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

bloomberg.com

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Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#91

Post by valuearb »

6stringmerc wrote: post #31

They have to be a lot more efficient to haul around all the extraneous shit that people have demanded be put into cars over the years. Of course it's always extreme in "Top of the Line" products like this Bentley ( http://blog.caranddriver.com/it-takes-a-lot-of-wiring-to-kee... ) but the trickle-down effect is inevitable. Happened with air bags, IIRC. Look how many companies are adding variations of "Auto Pilot" or d…

Driving is massively safer now than it was even 20 years ago. Automated safety systems are big reason why, and we aren't too far from fully automated braking/lane holding systems being cheap enough to be standard equipment, and reduce accident rates substantially more (even with distracted drivers).

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#92

Post by jstelly »

mikeash wrote: post #83
DamnInteresting wrote: post #73

A few weeks ago I bought a Chevy Bolt EV...according to the dealer it was the first one sold in my state (Utah). I'd been on a waiting list for almost a year. Sure, ICE engines are getting better, but EVs are rapidly gaining and will soon surpass. The Bolt is a bit expensive for a car of its body type, but "gassing up" at home is amazing, the 200+ mile range is great, and the sharply reduced emissions are a weight of…

I own a Tesla S85 and recently had a Cadillac ATS rental for a few days. It was an interesting contrast, since the official 0-60 times of the two cars are almost the same, yet the Cadillac felt like an absolute slug by comparison. I think a lot of it is that there's a great deal of lag in traditional drivetrains, and we rarely do 0-60 in actual real-life driving. More typically we're doing 0-30 or 30-40 or 55-65. Onc…

I also have a model S, but I have owned a couple of other high performance gas cars that are much more responsive on the 55-65 or 40-70 acceleration test (passing at highway speeds). That's the only common case where the tesla loses to gas vehicles, and then only high performance gas vehicles (e.g. 300HP+ coupe/sedan models).

But the 0-30 thing is exactly right in my experience. Even more powerful vehicles don't have the instant and smooth acceleration feel of an electric motor.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#93

Post by paganel »

rsync wrote: post #80
kmm wrote: post #60

I always wondered why American cars are so inefficient. Seems such a waste of your significantly cheaper gas :) I drive an Opel Astra H 1.7 CDTI and I can get up to 50 mpg (4.7 l/100 km) on the highway, and I never dip under 40 mpg (5.8 l/100km) even when doing a lot of city driving. I understand that my car is comparatively somewhat smaller (1200 kg) and underpowered (100 hp), yet I can't imagine needing more horsep…

"What do you get in the place for this lower efficiency? Are American cars that much heavier? More comfortable? Faster?" I cannot speak for everyone, but as someone who lives in the US and also spends a lot of time in Europe, there is a very big lifestyle difference at play here. First, I have a five person family (wife and three kids) and you[1], statistically, as a European, have 1.6 children - and as a highly educ…

> On the occasions that I have lived in Europe, I always spoke of how interesting it was that we could just "drive to St. Petersburg" or "just drive to Transylvania" or whatever, and otherwise smart and interesting european friends would look at me like I was a crazy person. It is very, very rare to meet Europeans who drive across multiple countries for leisure.

Me and my gf did a Bucharest-to-Geneva and back car-trip last year and it was wonderful. There's something to be said about getting up to 2,000 meters in the Swiss Alps using a 1.4l gasoline engine car with 86bhp (probably less now, as the car is already 10 years old), all in third gear. Plus riding on the Austrian and German autobahns, as a car-lover that's pure bliss. Or riding on the Autostrade of Northern Italy in the middle of the night and stopping for an 1-euro ristretto at a gas station which was better-tasting than the majority of coffee-drinks that I had ever had.

But you're of course correct, ours was an isolated experience. I think my car was the only Romania (or Eastern-Europe)-licensed plate on the streets of Geneva (and Lausanne). If only gasoline were less expensive...

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#94

Post by chadgeidel »

old-gregg wrote: post #84

I suspect that people of the future will look back and be amazed that for more than a century we've been legally allowing our slow-reacting bodies [1] to ride around at 80mph in a 2-ton hideous mechanical equivalent of a horse, killing ourselves [2] and simultaneously destroying our cities [3]. I myself used to be a "petrolhead" my 20s and it's quite amazing to observe this awakening when looking in the mirror. I sus…

I think this is often overlooked. Traction aids and computer control has filled in so much as horsepower and weight increases. It's absolutely mind-boggling that people drive around in giant SUVs with huge amounts of horsepower until you look at the suspension and brakes - which are bigger and more complex than performance cars of just a few years ago.

* still a "petrohead" but I prefer light weight and low displacement (Lotus FTW!)

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#95

Post by creepydata »

6stringmerc wrote: post #31

They have to be a lot more efficient to haul around all the extraneous shit that people have demanded be put into cars over the years. Of course it's always extreme in "Top of the Line" products like this Bentley ( http://blog.caranddriver.com/it-takes-a-lot-of-wiring-to-kee... ) but the trickle-down effect is inevitable. Happened with air bags, IIRC. Look how many companies are adding variations of "Auto Pilot" or d…

People are going to be on their phone at 70 MPH no matter what do-dads are in their car. The best we can do is take the human element out of the equation.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#96

Post by rsync »

trjordan wrote: post #20

My first car crush was in high school: the 2002 Subaru WRX. It would be fine to get some souped-up monster, and high-end BMWs are always fast, but when I first saw those silly little bug eyes and the trademark blue color? God did I want one. It was weird to figure out that it only came with a 2 liter engine. Apparently turbos help a lot. It was even weirder when the 2005 STI came out with the same engine ... and a bi…

"To me, the last 15 years have been car manufacturers figuring out that with the right kind of engineering, you can get rid of turbo lag, and if you don't have lag or reliability problems, turbos make everything better. Smaller, faster, more fuel-efficient. My dad's sedan has a twin turbo these days. It gets 35 mpg."

I think this is a mistaken interpretation of what is going on.

What I believe is happening is that ever-increasing emissions and fleet efficiency requirements have seriously clamped down on what carmakers can produce, with technology and feature creep continuing to add weight to the car.

That is why we see cars going to smaller and smaller engines (basically the entire Volvo fleet is 4 cylinder now) with increased reliance on turbo/super charging to achieve necessary horsepower.

But these things are not equal - smaller engines vibrate more, they are louder, they are most likely inline and therefore have badly balanced "secondary forces" and they are going to have trouble achieving displacement larger than 2.5L.

I have no skin in this game since I don't care at all about ICE or ICE car culture and I want to transition to fully electric vehicles ASAP.

But never forget, kids: there is no replacement for displacement.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#97

Post by mikeash »

kmm wrote: post #60

I always wondered why American cars are so inefficient. Seems such a waste of your significantly cheaper gas :) I drive an Opel Astra H 1.7 CDTI and I can get up to 50 mpg (4.7 l/100 km) on the highway, and I never dip under 40 mpg (5.8 l/100km) even when doing a lot of city driving. I understand that my car is comparatively somewhat smaller (1200 kg) and underpowered (100 hp), yet I can't imagine needing more horsep…

There are a ton of Priuses on American roads, which I think are a bit larger, will easily meet or exceed those fuel efficiency numbers, and do it all while burning gasoline instead of diesel. (Diesel is more energy dense, so it's easier to get better MPG numbers with it. Diesel is also more expensive in the US, so it's not cost effective unless the efficiency gain is significant.)

It's not all that hard to find efficient cars here. The Honda Civic is rated at 32MPG city/42 highway (and our ratings tend to come in a bit worse than real-world driving will give you), Toyota Corolla is 30/42, Chevy Cruze is 31/47. You can do worse if you want, but you don't have to.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#98

Post by loco5niner »

cglace wrote: post #48
whalesalad wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't buy a 5 liter V8 to be quiet.

I'm the guy in the car over wanting it to be quiet. I'm saying I find those cars extremely annoying.

I'm more annoyed by the ridiculous "mufflers" kids seem to think are a good idea.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#99

Post by azernik »

For a good anecdotal, non-American example:

My grandmother lives in quite a hilly town. Her old car was from the mid-80s, with few airbags and basically zero crumple zone, so at a certain point her kids (my mom and uncle) persuaded her to get a new one.

Her worry was power - the old car was a pretty upcharged model to make it uphill to her house, and she was not looking forward to figuring out which new models had the same power-to-weight. Turns out she needn't have worried - you can't even find a car in her preferred (pretty small) size range with that little power anymore.

Re: America’s Cars Are Getting Faster and More Efficient

#100

Post by rsync »

paganel wrote: post #93
rsync wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What do you get in the place for this lower efficiency? Are American cars that much heavier? More comfortable? Faster?" I cannot speak for everyone, but as someone who lives in the US and also spends a lot of time in Europe, there is a very big lifestyle difference at play here. First, I have a five person family (wife and three kids) and you[1], statistically, as a European, have 1.6 children - and as a highly educ…

> On the occasions that I have lived in Europe, I always spoke of how interesting it was that we could just "drive to St. Petersburg" or "just drive to Transylvania" or whatever, and otherwise smart and interesting european friends would look at me like I was a crazy person. It is very, very rare to meet Europeans who drive across multiple countries for leisure. Me and my gf did a Bucharest-to-Geneva and back car-tri…

"But you're of course correct, ours was an isolated experience. I think my car was the only Romania (or Eastern-Europe)-licensed plate on the streets of Geneva (and Lausanne). If only gasoline were less expensive..."

Good for you! I love to do these trips.

It is so baffling how uninterested most Europeans are in just getting out and driving to parts unknown. It's tremendously rewarding.

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