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Kotlin Is Better

steve-yegge.blogspot.com

91–100 of 229 posts

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#91
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty terrible design to couple activity state to the physical orientation of the device.

To be fair, there may have been really good reasons for it back when Android devices had 500 Mhz single-core CPUs with 32 or 64 Megabytes of RAM.

Still good reasons when a web browser eats 500 MB.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#92
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked on a commercial project that used Scala. Never again. Compiles were slow, IDE support was terrible, everyone had their own subset they used. I'm sure it's improved since 2010.

I work on a large Scala team. We use microservices so my regular compile times are somewhere between 4s and 20s. I rarely have to do a full rebuild. IDE support is bad, that's a good criticism but a good chunk of us don't use IDEs, and instead write it like a dynamic language. Live inside the REPL, copy paste back and fourth. As for 'subsets' everyone uses, I find this advantageous. Our team strongly encourages a pur…

You might have actually convinced people to not consider Scala. You are saying, Scala is great, except for these small things:

1. Modify your codebase to use microservices

2. Modify your IDE habits to be more REPL friendly

3. Modify your team coding habits even if it makes it hard for one person to work on the other person's codebase.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#93
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on a large Scala team. We use microservices so my regular compile times are somewhere between 4s and 20s. I rarely have to do a full rebuild. IDE support is bad, that's a good criticism but a good chunk of us don't use IDEs, and instead write it like a dynamic language. Live inside the REPL, copy paste back and fourth. As for 'subsets' everyone uses, I find this advantageous. Our team strongly encourages a pur…

You might have actually convinced people to not consider Scala. You are saying, Scala is great, except for these small things: 1. Modify your codebase to use microservices 2. Modify your IDE habits to be more REPL friendly 3. Modify your team coding habits even if it makes it hard for one person to work on the other person's codebase.

I work with some larger Scala codebases too and the compile times are not that bad either. Maybe 30 seconds is more common for the large ones. Certainly not worse than C++, only a bit slower than Java.

>2. Modify your IDE habits to be more REPL friendly

Plenty of people use IDEs, I just think if that's what your main sticking point when picking a language, go with C#. It has the best IDE of any language.

>3. Modify your team coding habits even if it makes it hard for one person to work on the other person's codebase.

Nope, not a problem. I can work on any code base in the company. It's spooky how fast we can jump into others teams projects and contribute, and a lot of that is due to the power of the language.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#95

The only problem with Steve's rant is that he starts out describing his experience with APIs, but then it turns into an issue of better languages. Presumably Kotlin doesn't wrap the entire Android API with some kind of better API, but most Android API calls would be direct Kotlin->Java calls, so how does Kotlin solve the nasty API issue? Really, this seems to be another Java critique by Steve. He's also written criti…

Extension functions as mentioned are extremely useful. There's just some functionality you need on different types of Android classes (especially views, activites, and fragments) very often but it really isn't worth it to subclass it since not all views or activites need all of the functionality. The improvement to findViewById was met with tepid applause today because its hardly used anymore due to there being a lot…

If you got time, play around with extensions with multiple receivers, you can do pretty neat stuff with them.

See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14365317

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#96
It's impressive to see Kotlin finally getting some traction. The first time I heard of it was years ago: I was doing a piece of competitor analysis at Red Gate and I clearly remember reading about it and having a distinctly "whatever" reaction.

Part of that was because every time I'd seen some (relatively) small shop invent a language or platform in the past, it sort of sucked. But JetBrains are a rather different animal. They've done a great job of getting the right kind of people on board, with the right background and experience, to do language design well. They also have a talent for making long-term plays and consistently investing in them; they're patient about achieving long-term success (examples: IntelliJ, TeamCity, even YouTrack), which isn't so common. I probably shouldn't be surprised to see the same happening with Kotlin - they've been plugging away at it for about 6 years, I think. Great work.

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#97
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on a large Scala team. We use microservices so my regular compile times are somewhere between 4s and 20s. I rarely have to do a full rebuild. IDE support is bad, that's a good criticism but a good chunk of us don't use IDEs, and instead write it like a dynamic language. Live inside the REPL, copy paste back and fourth. As for 'subsets' everyone uses, I find this advantageous. Our team strongly encourages a pur…

You might have actually convinced people to not consider Scala. You are saying, Scala is great, except for these small things: 1. Modify your codebase to use microservices 2. Modify your IDE habits to be more REPL friendly 3. Modify your team coding habits even if it makes it hard for one person to work on the other person's codebase.

But the thing is if you modify your habits, it's so much more efficient than most other languages. It's reasonable to have to learn knew coding style when paradigm-shifting languages. Why isn't it reasonable for there to be other new behaviors as well?

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#98
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean guys been blogging for ages and it's been like a decade so maybe his position changed or he is contradicting himself. No dog in the fight personally as I don't use any of that stuff. Maybe I am missing some deep technical blunder but on the face of it seems a bit silly to cite the guys decade old work against his current; then be surprised they aren't fluidly consistent..

It's not that there's anything wrong with someone changing their mind. I certainly thought FP was useless ten years ago, java was the best and generally had some bad ideas about software engineering. However, the difference is I had the sense to not blog about things I only had cursory knowledge of while attempting to sound like the ultimate authority on the matter...

[deleted]

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#99
post #47
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean guys been blogging for ages and it's been like a decade so maybe his position changed or he is contradicting himself. No dog in the fight personally as I don't use any of that stuff. Maybe I am missing some deep technical blunder but on the face of it seems a bit silly to cite the guys decade old work against his current; then be surprised they aren't fluidly consistent..

It's not that there's anything wrong with someone changing their mind. I certainly thought FP was useless ten years ago, java was the best and generally had some bad ideas about software engineering. However, the difference is I had the sense to not blog about things I only had cursory knowledge of while attempting to sound like the ultimate authority on the matter...

Yegge wrote about using Ocaml and other FP's in 2004 https://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/more-ocaml

Re: Kotlin Is Better

#100
Side note: Even if you're not interested in Kotlin, or don't know Steve Yegge, give a read to this blog post.

The writing is as good and hilarious as in the old good times when he used to write way more often. Lots of fun for the morning.

For aspiring blog-writers, it's also a good study how to write blogs to keep readers engaged. I only know 2 people writing in that style, him and Joel Spolsky, but it's highly effective.

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