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Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

reuters.com

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Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#91

Post by Dangeranger »

dangero wrote: post #70
pvg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody was forcing Uber to do anything. They were trying to deny agents of public regulatory bodies the ability to assess them. That isn't any kind of 'right'.

"right" is a moral judgement. It depends on whether you see this as civil disobedience. It may be "right" and also illegal at the same time.

The law makes it pretty clear whether a business has the "right" to interfere with a criminal investigation.

Disagreeing with a law doesn't give you the "right" to not follow the law.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#92

Post by dragonwriter »

bogositosius wrote: post #40
kevan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those local officials were issuing arbitrary fines and illegally impounding cars I'd agree with you. But they weren't. Those local officials were enforcing the laws of their jurisdictions, which Uber was trying to circumvent.

So let the local officials bring a case.

One possible outcome of an FBI investigation is information being shared with local prosecutors on which they might being a case.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#93

Post by philip1209 »

j2kun wrote: post #81
nostromo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a tool for this -- the government asks for a subpoena from a judge to force Uber to provide their data. It's all out in the open and Uber can argue against the subpoena if they choose. Scraping APIs with fake profiles isn't the right way to go about this.

I was under the impression it's illegal to intentionally mislead any federal employee, subpoena or not, in any communication whatsoever. Whether it's the "right" way or not, it seems like an API counts as a form of communication.

State laws are not enforced by federal officials though, correct?

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#94

Post by sqeaky »

eridius wrote: post #25
samrap wrote: post #18

At first, it seemed like legitimate software to assess spam until: > For example, it mined credit card information to see if the owner was affiliated with a credit union used by police and checked social media profiles to assess the likelihood that the person was in law enforcement. Yikes. I know people who have the mentality that this sort of thing is ok. Whether you're a startup that never makes it, or one worth bi…

Why haven't you quit yet? There's been more ugly stuff coming out about Uber over the past few years than basically the entire of the rest of the tech industry combined.

You have look at microsoft to get a comparable amount of BS.

At least microsoft had the civility to only screw over other software shops (and occassionally tinker with government lobbying and standardization bodies). Uber has sexism, anti-police conspiracies, oppression of its own workforce, blatantly illegal operating procedures, etc...

I have no reason to believe this, but I am waiting for the story were the uber CEO makes of with all the investors money.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#95

Post by [deleted] »

analogist wrote: post #78
nostromo wrote: post #44

I'm not a fan of Uber, but it seems like it's their right to decide who is allowed to use their service. (Baring protected classes, of course.) If a regulator started creating fake user accounts in order to scrape Uber's data, I don't see why Uber can't put a stop to that. And if a legislator is a vocal critic of Uber, I don't see why Uber should be forced to allow them to use their service.

So you would be fine with your local restaurant "denying service" and locking the doors only when the food safety inspectors show up?

[deleted]

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#96

Post by pvg »

dangero wrote: post #70
pvg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody was forcing Uber to do anything. They were trying to deny agents of public regulatory bodies the ability to assess them. That isn't any kind of 'right'.

"right" is a moral judgement. It depends on whether you see this as civil disobedience. It may be "right" and also illegal at the same time.

Since you can apply this to pretty much anything, this analysis is neither particularly insightful nor useful. It's a godwining in which you replace Hitler with Thoreau.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#97

Post by nebabyte »

jeffdavis wrote: post #32

Doesn't seem very likely to be a serious problem for Uber. Basically bad PR. If I were them, I would be more worried that they can't kill competitors well enough to ever be highly profitable.

This would be one of the eggs they're putting in the basket of "we'll just corner self-driving cars"

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#98

Post by sqeaky »

nebabyte wrote: post #88
terribleplan wrote: post #34

Ok, what's the over under on the people who coded this getting used as scapegoats? I'm at about 40/60 against. Morality and legality in software is a massive frontier we hardly pause to think about.

0/100 (or 100/0 or whatever). "Above my pay grade" The code is the property of the company. Whoever ordered it be created and/or used would be culpable.

I agree they Should be culpable, but whether or not they Would is the decision that is actually above our paygrade.

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#99

Post by sandworm101 »

philip1209 wrote: post #93
j2kun wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression it's illegal to intentionally mislead any federal employee, subpoena or not, in any communication whatsoever. Whether it's the "right" way or not, it seems like an API counts as a form of communication.

State laws are not enforced by federal officials though, correct?

No, but they can investigate where there is the possibility of conspiracies. Basically everything Uber does involves the flow of data across state lines and the feds can investigate otherwise state crimes that cross multiple states. This is what Uber needs to really worry about:

"If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371

Re: Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities

#100

Post by eternalban »

stepitup wrote: post #46

What's really strange is that I bet a good percente of the people reading this comment will know exactly what I mean when I refer to a: "Startup that employs mafia tactics and forces businesses to pay a protection fee, or actively fucks them up and attempts to hurt them." Why aren't the authorities going over the ACTUAL, honest-to-god mafia startup? Sorry, I realize it's off topic here, but my first thought when I re…

> Why aren't the authorities going over the ACTUAL, honest-to-god mafia startup?

One possibility is that their competitors don't have friends in very high places. Uber is stinky but as you point out hardly the stinkiest. But Uber clearly has very powerful enemies.

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