Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

nasa.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–97 of 97 posts

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#91

Post by burke »

jmmcd wrote: post #65
ucontrol wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent observation. Most critical? Maybe not. But it is undoubtedly very much a significant and underrecognized factor. The Overview Effect is a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect

I agree with other commenter that the overview effect is real but an error. Just because earth is smaller than Saturn doesn't make it insignificant, or make our concerns - wars, religions, reality TV and all - petty. There is absolutely nothing of significance in Saturn that compares to what we have on earth. Significance can't even exist without life.

The thrust of Sagan's monologue was to encourage re-evaluation of religiously-motivated anthropocentrism.

To me, at least, it's less of "how could anything here matter when Saturn is so big?" and more of "does it really seem plausible that this vast universe was created for the benefit of some creatures on the surface of this little speck? Do you really think we're that special?"

Certainly it's possible to ride the Overview Effect all the way to nihilism, but it seems clear to me that unexamined anthropocentrism is at least as incorrect.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#92

Post by jimmyk »

dorgo wrote: post #90
jimmyk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on that?

how it used to be: you fight, win and get some rewards or loose and leave with a bleeding nose. How it is now: you fight and everybody dies from nuclear / bio / nano / .. weapon.

Successfully competing for a slice of the rock means not getting wiped out. Billions of people are currently competing in this fashion.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#93

Post by ucontrol »

doulos wrote: post #44
yeukhon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment leaves me in a void state. There's so much emptiness.The density of our population in a metropolitan city, is insignificant when you think of it at the scale of space. I just picture me as one of trillions of rocks going around at an extreme velocity around the Saturn ring. Each rock represents a violent pass of this galaxy. We also know there's a black hole in the center of this galaxy, let alone we hav…

I'm also in awe of the universe, but I come away encouraged. Psalm 8 looks at these same thoughts from a different perspective. We are infinitesimally small, but not unknown.

Thank you for exposing me to the Psalm, I found it beautiful.

There is something about ancient texts and mythology that when put in a juxtaposition with modern advancements truly makes me appreciate humanity and how far we've come. It adds a completely new emotional layer to it, dare I say spiritual?

I hope one day I'll have the time to read the Bible, purely out of intellectual curiosity and historical appreciation.

I blame the Civilization series.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#94

Post by freeflight »

jimmyk wrote: post #89
freeflight wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not the OP, I believe I get his point: With the environment changing so do the evolutionary advantages that come with the environment. In that regard, an evolutionary trait that is considered disadvantageous in one environment might be actually advantageous in a different environment. Case in point: Humans fighting over rocks. When there were only a few humans around but lots of "good rocks" to fight over,…

It may certainly be a massive resource waste compared to an idealized system where everyone chooses to selflessly cooperate. But what is going to happen to the people in your scenario who choose not to compete for control over a slice of the rock when other people continue to compete for control over a slice of the rock?

Well, that's the issue: The people not choosing to compete and instead seeking cooperation will be at an individual disadvantage compared to those that compete, so it's hard to get people to cooperate on a massive scale because it's often a rather selfless act. Why cooperate and share, when you can just be greedy and keep it all for yourself with no obvious disadvantage to yourself?

But this results in kinda a chicken&egg problem: If nobody cooperates then we are wasting resources and effort, but if only some people cooperate they put themselves in a disadvantageous position, compared to the remaining competitors, and will have a hard time pulling trough.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#95

Post by jimmyk »

freeflight wrote: post #94
jimmyk wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may certainly be a massive resource waste compared to an idealized system where everyone chooses to selflessly cooperate. But what is going to happen to the people in your scenario who choose not to compete for control over a slice of the rock when other people continue to compete for control over a slice of the rock?

Well, that's the issue: The people not choosing to compete and instead seeking cooperation will be at an individual disadvantage compared to those that compete, so it's hard to get people to cooperate on a massive scale because it's often a rather selfless act. Why cooperate and share, when you can just be greedy and keep it all for yourself with no obvious disadvantage to yourself? But this results in kinda a chicke…

The people not choosing to compete and instead seeking cooperation will be at an individual disadvantage compared to those that compete, so it's hard to get people to cooperate on a massive scale because it's often a rather selfless act.

This is not an insurmountable problem by any means. Group competition occurs on a variety of levels. Nations compete. Ethnic groups compete. Political parties compete. Businesses compete. Individuals compete. When competing as groups, there just need to be benefits shared among the group (i.e. a reason for people to be a part of the group) and ways to punish free-riding (i.e. ways to prevent people from receiving the benefits of the group while not contributing to the group).

The point I'm making, though, is that if any of those entities chooses not to compete with other like entities, it will dwindle into irrelevance or die out. That entity will not be making the world a better place by choosing not to compete. Instead it will simply be replaced by other such entities which are more inclined to put their own interests first, as has happened to countless other nations, ethnic groups, political factions, businesses, and individuals that did not compete successfully for whatever reason.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#96

Post by doulos »

ucontrol wrote: post #93
doulos wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in awe of the universe, but I come away encouraged. Psalm 8 looks at these same thoughts from a different perspective. We are infinitesimally small, but not unknown.

Thank you for exposing me to the Psalm, I found it beautiful. There is something about ancient texts and mythology that when put in a juxtaposition with modern advancements truly makes me appreciate humanity and how far we've come. It adds a completely new emotional layer to it, dare I say spiritual? I hope one day I'll have the time to read the Bible, purely out of intellectual curiosity and historical appreciation.…

I highly recommend it; definitely worth the time. Just be warned that you might just fall in love with Jesus. I did.

Re: NASA Image Shows Earth Between the Rings of Saturn

#97

Post by SnacksOnAPlane »

Man, I don't get why everyone's saying that we're insignificant because of this photo.

As far as we know, we're the most exciting thing going on in this corner of the universe. There is probably no other place that has conscious beings in that photo. We are massively important, primarily because we can recognize our own importance.

This isn't to say it isn't good to be humble. It certainly can be. But we're pretty damn incredible.

Post reply on HN