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Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

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Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#91
I have heard of at least three believable theories of why we sleep.

- To turn short term memory into long term memory, to consolidate long term memory, and prepare the brain to learn new things.

- To clean the brain of harmful waste products (which is what this article says. By the way, it is old and from 2013).

- An evolutionary artifact of energy conservation in resource-low ecosystems.

Are there some other theories too?

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#92
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because you're taking on significant health risks ("toxin" buildup as mentioned here among other things) by not sleeping, health risks that normally wouldn't be there because of the natural fatigue and lethargy that would force an unmedicated person (however dedicated) to drift off

Sure, but not everyone is taking them to avoid sleep. Regular users primarily use them to boost productivity during the day, followed by normal sleep.

True, that could be one way of framing the whole "using adderall/modafinil for productivity" issue. What is a "regular user" though? Someone with ADHD taking adderall in the morning to boost the "executive function" of his/her brain during the day? (as someone with ADHD, adderall sedates my hyperactive brain as opposed to its intended effect, look up the stimulant paradox for more on this) Someone who takes adderall the night before a big test to pull an all-nighter of productive studying? I've personally never heard of anyone (without ADHD) who regularly takes amphetamines to boost waking-hour productivity. Modafinil has related but different effects, regular modafinil users take it to offset the reduced mental performance brought about by sleep deprivation. There might be some nootropic effects of modafinil unrelated to its wakefulness promoting effect (cognition-wise), but like all nootropics, whether there's any actual increase in waking-hour cognitive ability is debatable.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#93
IIRC the story Manhole 69 by JG Ballard references a requirement to divert neurotoxins in men whose sleep centres were disconnected/cauterised.

Ballard I presumed was just speculating. But based on his relatively high level of scientific knowledge I imagined it was rooted in some sort of real world science.

That story was written in the 1960s...so has the state of research on this remained slow or was Ballard just making a lucky guess?

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#94

My alma mater has a saying: "sleep is for the weak". If you go to a university with that slogan, here is one more reason why it is foolish. If you want to learn effectively and work efficiently, take care of your body and take care of your brain.

Hey, my alma mater has that slogan too... oh, hi, afarrell.

How do you feel, in retrospect, about 6.004? On the one hand, amazing class that takes you through multiple layers of abstraction. On the other hand, why oh why did they set the labs to be due at 6am?

(Of course, you could justly ask why oh why my sophomore-year-self didn't exercise discipline and cut myself off trying to improve my beta.)

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#95

The actual research is quite interesting. Sleep disorders themselves are fascinating. There is evidence that TBI (traumatic brain injury) can cause lasting sleep cycle disruption. Perhaps sleep disruption and TBI is a much bigger factor in the lasting impact of TBI than previously thought. ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3482689/ ). Article review: This is pretty good science reporting, actually provid…

Are you sure scientists don't use the term? Consider: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=toxins+brain&btnG... I don't have more information. I just typed that in based on your comment.

I can't disagree. Scientists clearly use the word, but I would say there is a great deal of specificity to their usage and a very general malleable unspecific usage in typical science journalism, but that is a lot to write out, sort of an 80/20 rule for using the word Toxins. Often enough you will be write, so don't treat it as an inviolate law, but a good rule of thumb perhaps?

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#96

It's interesting that in almost every sleep related article I've read on HN, the overwhelming majority of people who respond about their personal life say that they hate getting up 'early'-for various definitions of early. Surely there are programmers who like getting up early?

I like getting up around 5:30 or so. Puts me outside the heaviest traffic times and gives me a few hours in the morning of uninterrupted time to mind meld with the computer. And then I get to leave 'early' in the afternoon and enjoy my free time and plentiful daylight.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#97

It always amazes me to read articles like this. How come I don't need more than 3 hours of sleep a day and its been like that for over 15 years now? I sleep "late hours". I go sleep around 8am and wake up around noon. I don't eat breakfast just coffee. I work most of the day on different projects, eat quite large dinner at 8pm, then every day go for 45 min to the gym, around 10pm and then 20 min walk. After that its…

Wow that sounds amazing. Did you see anyone (like a doctor or a researcher) and ask for an explanation of how you can do this?

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#98

It's interesting that in almost every sleep related article I've read on HN, the overwhelming majority of people who respond about their personal life say that they hate getting up 'early'-for various definitions of early. Surely there are programmers who like getting up early?

I'm an early riser, I do the majority of my work in the mornings.

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#99

This should worry all the people taking adderall and modafinil to be more productive.

There's a massive difference between using stimulants to be more productive and using stimulants to skip sleep.

Is there?

Re: Brains Sweep Themselves Clean of Toxins During Sleep (2013)

#100
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, "toxic" and "toxins" are incredibly vague. I loathe the use of those words, as they are both scary and nearly meaningless.

When I see "toxins" I just stop reading. I assume the article is an ad for a juice cleanse.

When I see the term "Cloud", I do the same thing.
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