Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed • Hacker News Board

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#91

Post by z0d » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

The Xbox Scorpio SoC is RX480 again, Polaris chip on steroids - coupled with more GDDR5 6.8GHz@326GB/s BW vRAM 12GB with reserved to OS @1.5-2GB Plus a quad core Jaguar cluster added in with Vapor Chamber & full DX12 HW improvements. That should be a slightly OCed GTX 1060 level of perf looking from the specsheet, Plus they are banking on that DX12 due to the CPU being Jaguar still, Also the GCN HW of the AMD thus helping it to boost the ASync compute. Prev gen was also a RX480 based but cutdown chip less than cut down GM204 perf (And It did 4K forza which was a direct port from the Studio 10 to the Scorpio from XB1 @60FPS/~64% GPU usage, Mobile GTX 1070 and up should be still outperforming it & when it comes to proper optimized titles like BF1 / TF2 / TW3 / MEC etc will aid further to render more details, Also running old 4K forza on Console GFX options vs PC GFX options is not an apples to apples comparison. Note that TF figure on AMD and Nvidia aren't same either...

Consoles can never reach PC levels of detailing due to the market and targeted audience. I'm a PC gamer, I can't stand to the degraded visuals on the Consoles, Also the Nvidia Tessellation is superior to AMD. Sad part is due to the % of market the PC games get downgraded / unoptimized mess due to these consoles Also the XB1Scorpio doesn't add any significant advantage over the PS4Pro because of less than stellar exlc. titles & Checkered board rendering used. Finally the native 4K@60Hz or 30 isn't out, I highly doubt an RX480 can run the games at 60FPS 4K, the power isn't just there for the recent games and upcoming powerful engines developed with Pascal HW will outperform this weak chip soon..

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#92

Post by phonon » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

clhodapp wrote: post #39

Hrm, I can't help but think that despite this being only slightly more than Sony's PS4 Pro spec-wise, that difference is going to matter a lot because it seems to be the difference between being able to output (upscaled) 4k and being able to render 4k. We'll see if that turns out to be true when the Scorpio Xbox One actually launches (this kind of pre-release article is very prone to botching facts like this). If it…

Does it really make much of a difference?

Even for large screen TV's, you would need to sit about 3-5 feet from a 4K TV to make out every pixel.

3k rendered, then upscaled to 4K should be pretty much indistinguishable to 99% of viewers.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#93

Post by jkaunisv1 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:02 PM UTC

mustacheemperor wrote: post #76

mikestew wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work. Because those millions of users use the box to play games, like I do. Oh, I've tried all the other stuff, and as you point out it's generally such a steaming pile of shit that I feel foolish for having even tried. (If the Kinect weren't in a box in the garage, I'd be staring in its direction right now.) Frankly, I'd be…

>I'd be happy if they could just bring the Xbone back to the level of usability that the 360 had My housemates and I purchased an Xbone and realized before long we were using the 360 more because it was vastly preferable for netflix/youtube/etc. Have since switched to a chromecast for that stuff, but the Xbone is absolutely a massive step back in UX. Not to mention the ads on the dashboard. There is advertising on th…

Because for some reason you keep paying the subscription, buying the games and playing them?

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#94

Post by BatFastard » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

pilom wrote: post #64

strictnein wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately they didn't have a screenshot of Forza running at Ultra level settings, which is mentioned in the article as being achievable, because I think the line would be blurred even further.

I hope Ultra level settings add a fair bit b/c the aliasing on that screenshot is incredibly obvious everywhere but especially on the cables holding the starting lights and the barrier fences. It looks good but it isn't real by a long shot.

I see it when you mention it, but it did not standout for me by any means. And it might be an artifact if the image is being downsize automatically for you to view it (I know it was for me).

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#95

Post by pixel_fcker » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #23

andrewbarba wrote: post #13

Maybe I am completely off the marks here, and I'm sorry if this is off topic, but as someone who follows very closely what Apple is (or isn't?) doing in their Pro machines I am very curious how those specs compare to what everyone is asking for from Apple. The RAM is obviously low, fine, but it sounds like the CPU and GPU are significantly more capable than anything that Apple is shipping right now, and Microsoft wil…

A big part of it is the type of graphics card. FirePro (the kind in workstations) are much more expensive than normal general purpose graphics cards, which are again more expensive than custom SoCs which can be developed barebones for a specific use. Reason being that a calculation error that results in a dead pixel is fine when you are playing a video game. It'll be there for 1/60s and then be gone, never seen again…

Animation software works just fine on geforces (no-one uses AMD for professional work) - you don't need fp64 for anything. Rendering for film is 99.9% CPU-based, and even if that weren't true, all the GPU renderers on the market don't make use of fp64 anyway.

The only reason to use workstation class cards is because the software is certified to run on them (I.e. You won't get support from AD if you use a GeForce instead of a quadro). The only real reason used to be memory but with 11GB in a 1080ti even that's less true these days.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#96

Post by mistermann » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:10 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #66

zaroth wrote: post #51

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a…

I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work. Because those millions of users use the box to play games, like I do. Oh, I've tried all the other stuff, and as you point out it's generally such a steaming pile of shit that I feel foolish for having even tried. (If the Kinect weren't in a box in the garage, I'd be staring in its direction right now.) Frankly, I'd be…

> Frankly, I'd be happy if they could just bring the Xbone back to the level of usability that the 360 had.

I only own a 360 and was reading the parent comment in context of that and nodding my head vigorously, you mean the UI on the xbone is even worse?

Microsoft is such a schizophrenic company.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#97

Post by AlphaSite » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:21 PM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #43

nailer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reason being that a calculation error that results in a dead pixel is fine when you are playing a video game. It'll be there for 1/60s and then be gone, never seen again. The same error in a disney film or a 3d scene rendered for a poster needs to be pixel perfect, so workstation class cards have a much lower threshhold for error, and cost accordingly. I've heard this a lot, and I don't doubt that it's correct, but…

Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough to give you a conclusive answer. One big thing is that most consumer-class GPUs use normal memory, whereas workstation-class use ECC memory, which can correct for bitflips that might occur during normal operation.

HBM is ECC by default, so that distinction is slowly vanishing.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#98

Post by snuxoll » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

khedoros1 wrote: post #71

to3m wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have expected most people to have a laptop at home. Maybe I'm unusual, or maybe the people I know are unusual, but I don't know many who use a desktop PC at home any more. Desktop work PCs are still common, but you're not going to spend your own money on them.

I don't know many, either. Even mine has been sitting idle for a while, because it's in my (toddler) son's room, I don't have anywhere else to put it, and it's honestly begging for an upgrade at this point anyhow. Which is too bad. It's got a nicer keyboard+mouse, sound system, screen, storage, network connection, and graphics than my laptop. There's a dedicated desk and chair. The only place the laptop wins out: Con…

I'm the only person in my family that owns a desktop myself, but my group of friends is mostly a bunch of desktop users since one of our primary use cases is PC gaming (although mine is also a workstation for software development and some light video editing).

Regardless of their quality, you can get a basic no-frills laptop for $400 and be able to carry it with you - or you can spend that much on an equally no-frills (though still arguably better specification-wise) desktop and have it stuck wherever you put it. More people tend to favor the portability, they can have it at the kitchen table or in front of the TV - some people don't even own a proper computer and rely entirely on smartphones and/or tablets.

Desktop computing outside of the workplace is increasingly a niche, one that isn't going away as long as PC gaming remains but to argue it's not shrinking is delusional.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#99

Post by EpicEng » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:26 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #17

andrewbarba wrote: post #13

Maybe I am completely off the marks here, and I'm sorry if this is off topic, but as someone who follows very closely what Apple is (or isn't?) doing in their Pro machines I am very curious how those specs compare to what everyone is asking for from Apple. The RAM is obviously low, fine, but it sounds like the CPU and GPU are significantly more capable than anything that Apple is shipping right now, and Microsoft wil…

I've never seen anything in an apple desktop that suggests they aren't ludicrously overpriced. You can piece together a monster of a desktop for 2k, so I don't get it either.

If you're going to downvote I'd love to hear your reasoning. What about a Mac Pro justifies it's price?

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#100

Post by snuxoll » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #78

shmed wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll never get the same performance for the same cost on PC. They showed forza horizon 3 running at 60 FPS/4k on the scorpio, in a stress test with wheather effect + the maximum amount of cars on screen, while only using 66% of the available GPU power. And that was on a version of forza that was not even yet optimized for the scorpio, all they did was spend 2 day updating the engine to run on scorpio. I'm not sure…

> You'll never get the same performance for the same cost on PC. In a direct from-nothing-to-full-system comparison, sure. But if you've got a desktop already, your costs might just be the Nvidia card, and maybe some more RAM if that's lacking. Newegg has Nvidia 1070 cards that advertise DX12 for $370. It looks like a 1080 will cost about the same as I imagine the Xbox refresh will cost for about 15%-20% more power.…

> But if you've got a desktop already

Killer right here for an increasing percentage of the population. Fewer households even HAVE a desktop PC these days, laptops, tablets and smartphones are the computing devices of choice for many these days.

Even if you HAVE a desktop, there's no reason to assume the power supply can handle a dedicated graphics card if it wasn't shipped with one. Many OEM's like to skimp on power delivery at the price points the majority of consumer desktop PC's are sold at, since a $400 machine has little profit margin in the first place.