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A world without retirement?

theguardian.com

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Re: A world without retirement?

#91

Post by metasean »

tradersam wrote: post #2

> Bismarck did, however, have a further vision that was genuinely too radical for his era: he proposed a pension that could be drawn at any age, if the contributor was judged unfit for work. Those drawing it earlier would receive a lower amount. I wonder how well this would work in today's society. Pretending disability doesn't exist, and just making it a simple rate decrease for the earlier you withdraw.

>Pretending disability

And what happens to those that are 'genuinely handicap' and have medical costs that unavoidably exceed the 'lower amount'?

Re: A world without retirement?

#92

Post by betaby »

losteric wrote: post #15
simonsarris wrote: post #5

I'm currently writing a list of things to consider when creating a UBI scheme (concerns that I often don't see addressed), and this is an easy way to illustrate one of them. One simple way to implement "single payer" healthcare in the US would be to slowly expand the medicare (US program for people 65 and older) coverage by moving the age lower every year. Very similarly, a simple way to incrementally implement UBI w…

Taxes, with preferably much more progressive rates. The pension age depends on the number of people of working age and their tax rate. Population growth is slowing down, so the options are to increase taxes or the retirement age.

And not even try to think to tax business! Tax constantly shrinking in % working population. /s

Re: A world without retirement?

#93

Post by moonka »

user5994461 wrote: post #85
ahelwer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can live on $1500/month, you only need to save up $450K-$600K and live off the 3-4% real returns in perpetuity. This quantity of savings is easily reachable within a decade by tech workers paid $100K+/yr. In general, just take (monthly spending) * 12 * [25 or 33] to get bounds on required savings. The only other useful observation is that reducing spending is much more effective for reaching financial independ…

Or much simpler: Own your property. Once you own your place, you don't have to pay rent, you can live on $500 a month. That may be covered by the unemployment help, so you don't have to work either and don't pay taxes. Bonus: if there is a spare room in your place, you can rent it and you'll make enough to cover a lot of expenses and save much money.

>Once you own your place, you don't have to pay rent, you can live on $500 a month. That may be covered by the unemployment help, so you don't have to work either and don't pay taxes.

At least in Washington, unemployment is limited to I believe 26 weeks. IIRC, during the big downturn this was doubled in a lot of places (perhaps nationally?) but at least here it is back to 26 weeks.

Re: A world without retirement?

#94

Post by betaby »

user5994461 wrote: post #85
ahelwer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can live on $1500/month, you only need to save up $450K-$600K and live off the 3-4% real returns in perpetuity. This quantity of savings is easily reachable within a decade by tech workers paid $100K+/yr. In general, just take (monthly spending) * 12 * [25 or 33] to get bounds on required savings. The only other useful observation is that reducing spending is much more effective for reaching financial independ…

Or much simpler: Own your property. Once you own your place, you don't have to pay rent, you can live on $500 a month. That may be covered by the unemployment help, so you don't have to work either and don't pay taxes. Bonus: if there is a spare room in your place, you can rent it and you'll make enough to cover a lot of expenses and save much money.

Speaking for avg Canadian city, avg property tax about 1.1%. Median home price is 285K, thus you need 261CAD for property taxes alone, add here electricity, basic house maintenance and you need 500CAD only to live in your modest fully paid house.

Re: A world without retirement?

#95

Post by zanny »

aianus wrote: post #24
simonsarris wrote: post #5

I'm currently writing a list of things to consider when creating a UBI scheme (concerns that I often don't see addressed), and this is an easy way to illustrate one of them. One simple way to implement "single payer" healthcare in the US would be to slowly expand the medicare (US program for people 65 and older) coverage by moving the age lower every year. Very similarly, a simple way to incrementally implement UBI w…

> Very similarly, a simple way to incrementally implement UBI would be to lower the "retirement age" every year Why would you first give UBI to the richest people (old people at the peak of their careers with a lifetime of savings)? Sounds backwards to me.

All those retirees living off investments will be paying more in capital gains to subsidize the UBI, way in excess of the amount paid out to them to maintain the universality.

Re: A world without retirement?

#96

Post by aianus »

zanny wrote: post #95
aianus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very similarly, a simple way to incrementally implement UBI would be to lower the "retirement age" every year Why would you first give UBI to the richest people (old people at the peak of their careers with a lifetime of savings)? Sounds backwards to me.

All those retirees living off investments will be paying more in capital gains to subsidize the UBI, way in excess of the amount paid out to them to maintain the universality.

In Canada there is no capital gains tax on primary residences. In the US, $500k is exempt. I imagine the laws are similar in most parts of the world, no?

Re: A world without retirement?

#97

Post by michaelchisari »

contingencies wrote: post #73

For those who perceive such issues as likely in their future, for whatever reason, I would recommend an alternate strategy of becoming familiar with the social, cultural and legal ramifications of living in or retiring to a developing country. This can be a very effective means to mitigate costs and is widely used by the French (eg. large numbers move to Tunisia for months of the year), and in South and Southeast Asi…

That seems extraordinarily unfair to the developing countries, especially if it becomes something that people do en masse.

Re: A world without retirement?

#98

Post by Gatsky »

icebraining wrote: post #79
Gatsky wrote: post #62

When visiting the US, I was struck by how many elderly workers there were in restaurants, subways etc. Japan was similar. In Australia, I never see this. The reasons are presumably: 1. Australia has ok free healthcare 2. The baby boomers have generated massive wealth over the last 50 years because of the property market. Point 2 certainly won't be repeated for the next generation.

Could Australians continue to work into old age if they chose to? Your post implies they're being forced to work in the US and Japan, but it may be the opposite: that they have less options in Australia to keep working despite wishing to do so.

I don't think that is very plausible, nothing to stop Australians working as long as they like.

The retirees in Australia seem to be playing a lot of golf, travelling and looking after their grand children, to make a gross generalisation.

Re: A world without retirement?

#99

Post by contingencies »

michaelchisari wrote: post #97
contingencies wrote: post #73

For those who perceive such issues as likely in their future, for whatever reason, I would recommend an alternate strategy of becoming familiar with the social, cultural and legal ramifications of living in or retiring to a developing country. This can be a very effective means to mitigate costs and is widely used by the French (eg. large numbers move to Tunisia for months of the year), and in South and Southeast Asi…

That seems extraordinarily unfair to the developing countries, especially if it becomes something that people do en masse.

Unfair in which way? Generally these people bring cash and education and support the development of local infrastructure. Many such countries actually offer specific retirement or resettlement visas to attract such migration.

Re: A world without retirement?

#100

Post by [deleted] »

michaelchisari wrote: post #97
contingencies wrote: post #73

For those who perceive such issues as likely in their future, for whatever reason, I would recommend an alternate strategy of becoming familiar with the social, cultural and legal ramifications of living in or retiring to a developing country. This can be a very effective means to mitigate costs and is widely used by the French (eg. large numbers move to Tunisia for months of the year), and in South and Southeast Asi…

That seems extraordinarily unfair to the developing countries, especially if it becomes something that people do en masse.

[deleted]
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