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MBAs as CEOs

mintzberg.org

91–100 of 167 posts

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#91

I think it's more useful to think of MBAs as ordination into something like the Jesuits of American Corporatism. Late Capitalism in the US has evolved in such an obviously unequal and environmentally dangerous way that the only recourse we have is to a kind of "mystical" rhetoric. In this kind of system, being some kind of guru is just as important, if not more, than one's actual business acumen. Hence all the TED ta…

Except the ordination must be done by those claiming Apostolic succession, else your ordination is invalid. An online MBA degree from the University of Phoenix doesn't quite allow you the same benefits as your Ivy League MBA.

I like this. Gotta watch out for those For-Profit Anti-Popes.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#92
All Fortune 500 CEO's either have MBAs or surround themselves with army of smart MBAs.

Best we accept the value a person gets out of such a cut-throat, aggressive top MBA school and embrace it - afterall, we IT folks are famous for embracing all the advantages presented to us.

Disclaimer: I don't have a MBA nor do I plan on getting one.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#94

I know its popular to hate on Peter Thiel here but I think he's been right about this cohort for a long time, and that its not really surprising. Emphasis mine: > I think one challenge a lot of the business schools have is they end up attracting students who are very extroverted and have very low conviction, and they put them in this hot house environment for a few years — at the end of which, a large number of peopl…

I hate on Peter Thiel all the time, but he's absolutely right here. MBA schools teach a form of strategic analysis that is almost purely driven by fatally flawed ex post facto reasoning. Hell, the case study model pioneered at Harvard is a case study in ex post facto reasoning. Just read their most popular business books...always looking to the past and trying to find mystical reasons why one company did well and another company didn't (while completely ignoring counterfactuals).

We shouldn't be surprised that this form of reasoning leads to really bad ideas about what the next big thing is.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#95
post #81
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The latter can be challenging since he seems to keep those cards face down Agreed. I think a variety of his actions are driven by pragmatic expediency as well. Trump was essentially a five million dollar contrarian put option, from that perspective.

> Trump was essentially a five million dollar contrarian put option See, this is what distinguishes the SV circle jerk bubble from Peter Thiel. Trump was not , in fact, a contrarian put option. Many companies are extremely hopeful about a future under Trump rather than Hillary; this is reflected in the extremely bullish market since Trump's election. Everyone in SV flounders around thinking "how could Trump be a good…

What's your analysis on why this is? Because the assumption is he will bring back the robber baron times, which were good for established businesses? This is the only interpretation that makes sense to me, since everything I've seen so far looks like selling the long term future for short term gain. But I'm leftwing and humanist for European standards, so i have an obvious bias.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#96
Can you please deliver the following numbers and correlate them?

X: Reliance of the manager on numerical only input.

Y: Short-term improvement, usually gained by burning a non-measurable resource (brand-trust of the consumers, etc.)

T: Time from Promotion to a different Department till Disaster Impact

F: Time from Consequence Impact to arrival of capable fire-brigade CEO, basically reverting disastrous changes and recruiting back the personal that left.

If you put these in a formula, you should be able to derive the approximate bonus a MBA can have on a department, lets that from now on approximate with the sinus.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#97

I think it's more useful to think of MBAs as ordination into something like the Jesuits of American Corporatism. Late Capitalism in the US has evolved in such an obviously unequal and environmentally dangerous way that the only recourse we have is to a kind of "mystical" rhetoric. In this kind of system, being some kind of guru is just as important, if not more, than one's actual business acumen. Hence all the TED ta…

> readymade set of sacraments and oaths one can apply to any business to achieve magical effects

On the contrary, MBAs are designed not to be a "management formula" but teach by experience in two ways: first, exposure to thousands of real life case studies (often, in the better programs, with the CEO who lived it participating in the class discussion), and a class formed of carefully balanced profiles to have a mix of experiences contributing to the class discussion.

Domain experts will of course judge what they know: the accounting classes are weak, the investment classes are outdated, etc. but I'd argue there is no better way to speed-teach a generalist exposure, because the real world is complicated and management is about juggling inadequate resources and conflicting objectives for which there are often no rules. Whatever "rules" are taught (such as accounting standards, or using EBITDA instead of revenue for company valuation) are the product of generations of trial and error and tend to exist for a reason; it's good to question the rule and look up the reason, part of building a better mental model of how the world works.

Look at Enron: today, the black and white story is that they were fraudsters, but if you dig into the history of the company, first there were tons of genuinely interesting and moral people employed there because they believed in the vision and second there was a pattern of "the end justifies the means" from the true believers in management. So when you see a ton of smart people hired by true believers taking ethical shortcuts because "the end justifies the means"...

The generalist part is important. You might think you do not need to know about accounting or legal issues now, but as a manager they will come up. Just being aware of what can go wrong (reducing unknown unknowns) can go a long way in mitigating temptation. I think this is missed by many people who are on a certain career track: for example, I often hear that the CFA is better than an MBA if you want to stay in finance, and this may well be true (disclaimer: bailed out after failing level 2) but the CFA won't teach you, for example, how to deal with a toxic C-level hire, nor will you hear first hand a former infantry officer describe instances of creative leadership under intense pressure. Anecdotally, this kind of experience comes in a handy in private equity whilst being less useful in global macro trading.

Philip Delves Boughton's book [1] in particular captures this quite well.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Ahead-Curve-Harvard-Business-School/d...

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#98

I know its popular to hate on Peter Thiel here but I think he's been right about this cohort for a long time, and that its not really surprising. Emphasis mine: > I think one challenge a lot of the business schools have is they end up attracting students who are very extroverted and have very low conviction, and they put them in this hot house environment for a few years — at the end of which, a large number of peopl…

This is a doctrine that now starts with kids at a very young age. People reverse engineer their way into that Ivy League school, then the herd mentality drives them into finance / consulting, etc.

The further they go down this road, the greater the perceived risk of leaving it becomes. Add in the financial aspect for many, and you get the golden handcuffs. Spend too many years here and I suspect it just becomes your entire worldview, especially as your social circles thin out and become more homogeneous, especially in environments like business school.

In my own experience those who eventually escape are often driven out by what can be the psychological stress of conformity, or the realization that they are far from what they had wanted for their lives 5, 10, 15 years ago.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#99

I think it's more useful to think of MBAs as ordination into something like the Jesuits of American Corporatism. Late Capitalism in the US has evolved in such an obviously unequal and environmentally dangerous way that the only recourse we have is to a kind of "mystical" rhetoric. In this kind of system, being some kind of guru is just as important, if not more, than one's actual business acumen. Hence all the TED ta…

Except the ordination must be done by those claiming Apostolic succession, else your ordination is invalid. An online MBA degree from the University of Phoenix doesn't quite allow you the same benefits as your Ivy League MBA.

As a serious Catholic, I appreciated this humor and its legitimate insight.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#100

One question I asked that turned me off from pursuing an MBA was "what happens when the MBA pool becomes as saturated as the pool?" What other degree can one get besides an MBA to demonstrate success at business? How can one manage a social network that large at the minimum level required to get referrals to jobs. What will happen to wages? When I started thinking long term, I realized that people everything an MBA t…

When people use the phrase MBA on HN they usually mean MBA from one of the top 20 or so programs, which answers your first question.
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