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Apple releases iOS 10.3

9to5mac.com

91–100 of 103 posts

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#92

I've been running the beta for a few weeks now. The thing that stands out the most? They changed the filesystem, and I haven't noticed a thing - the upgrade time wasn't even significantly longer. If anything, the beta has been more stable than 10.2 releases. The fact they've pulled it off so seamlessly is pretty impressive. Heck, the majority of users won't have a clue that their filesystem has changed, and that's th…

Mine took way longer than earlier upgrades. Now, I am googling to see why they changed the file system. I heard about it sometime back though

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#94
post #80
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bugs could destroy people's data (and the cloud won't necessarily help if the bugs corrupt data rather than erase it). There's no reason to expect bugs if you have a comprehensive test suite and extensive internal and beta testing (like with a million of registered iOS developers running it for months). Doubly so if you control most of the APIs and interactions with the OS tightly in your platform (as iOS does).

Which is why the rest of iOS has no bugs? This statement makes me wonder, have you written any software before?

>Which is why the rest of iOS has no bugs?

It has no show stopper bugs, and is used by close to a billion everyday just fine.

And the "rest of the iOS" (kernel, userland, etc) is orders of magnitude more LOC than the filesystem. And with all kind of interactions between components, not just a constrained API that all sandboxed apps use, as is the case with an FS. It has way bigger test surface and (presumably) way smaller test suites than an FS would.

What's the reason to assume an FS which is under production for 2 years now at least (it didn't appear magically formed a day before last WWDC) will have not just some obscure or infrequent bugs, but data killing bugs?

(And why they'd be more than with the frequent new features and changes that Apple made/retrofitted to HFS over the years? Because they've started from scratch?)

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been running the beta for a few weeks now. > The thing that stands out the most? They changed > the filesystem, and I haven't noticed a thing On the other hand, maybe the file system only catastrophically fails every few months.

That's textbook FUD. You could say that about anything.

    > You could say that about anything.
You couldn't say it about a file system that hasn't encountered a serious error in two years.

The comment I replied to, sorry for my bluntness here, is pretty much "This file system hasn't give me any trouble in five or six weeks."

Even if they actually verified all the files on disk, to ensure none of them are corrupt, it wouldn't signify all much, given the short duration.

    > That's textbook FUD. 
I thought it was reasonable (maybe even self-evident) but we'll probably have to agree to disagree on that.

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#96
post #94
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why the rest of iOS has no bugs? This statement makes me wonder, have you written any software before?

> Which is why the rest of iOS has no bugs? It has no show stopper bugs, and is used by close to a billion everyday just fine. And the "rest of the iOS" (kernel, userland, etc) is orders of magnitude more LOC than the filesystem. And with all kind of interactions between components, not just a constrained API that all sandboxed apps use, as is the case with an FS. It has way bigger test surface and (presumably) way s…

Because software has bugs, filesystem software has data corruption bugs, and two years of development with only a couple of months of serious real-world testing is tiny for something like that.

What other filesystems have gone from zero to being the only supported option on their platform in such a short time? ZFS took almost five years. HFS+ was supported in parallel with HFS for a long time.

"And why they'd be more than with the frequent new features and changes that Apple made/retrofitted to HFS over the years? Because they've started from scratch?"

Once again I have to wonder: have you written software before? Of course a brand new from-scratch effort will be buggier than something with a long history.

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#97

Cricket scores in Siri! But only Indian Premier league. I want international games too.

You can ask Siri for "Latest ICC Cricket Scores" or more specifically like "India vs Australia Cricket Score" for international match updates.

I'm very happy about this.

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#98
Just upgraded to 10.3 last night on my iPhone 7. Nothing works! iMessage doesn't work anymore, I can't even swipe up to toggle wifi/bluetooth, the menu pops up about 1/3 of the way and just freezes.

Twitter hangs when it starts to fetch new data.

Anyone else had these issues after upgrading to 10.3?

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#99
post #96
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is why the rest of iOS has no bugs? It has no show stopper bugs, and is used by close to a billion everyday just fine. And the "rest of the iOS" (kernel, userland, etc) is orders of magnitude more LOC than the filesystem. And with all kind of interactions between components, not just a constrained API that all sandboxed apps use, as is the case with an FS. It has way bigger test surface and (presumably) way s…

Because software has bugs, filesystem software has data corruption bugs, and two years of development with only a couple of months of serious real-world testing is tiny for something like that. What other filesystems have gone from zero to being the only supported option on their platform in such a short time? ZFS took almost five years. HFS+ was supported in parallel with HFS for a long time. "And why they'd be more…

>Once again I have to wonder: have you written software before?

Yes, for several decades -- though not filesystems.

And I trivially know that software can always have bugs. I also know software has to ship at some point, and that is a different point than the "we're 100% sure it has 0 bugs" point -- which is not possible anyway.

I also don't believe in some cargo cult "optimal necessary period of testing" to make sure a given piece of software has or doesn't have bugs.

I also know that it's perfectly possible to have 10x the testing in 1/10 the time other teams/companies might take for their tests -- (e.g. by having far heavier test suites, more intelligent tests, better fuzzing, more systems to test on in your labs, more QA engineers thrown at the problem, or even formally proving your software's behavior) .

Finally, I can make ad hominem arguments too: have you wrote and deployed any filesystems before? If the domain experts designing AFS are confident to put it in use why we should trust you? Because of your scientific observations of checking how long other companies took to deploy their new filesystems and extrapolating some BS "optimal deployment time" from that?

In any case, maybe visit back this thread in 1 month? If the sky hasn't fallen for iOS 10.3 users (except, at worse, for some edge cases affecting tiny minorities/uncommon setups), maybe you'll be ready for your serving of crow?

Re: Apple releases iOS 10.3

#100
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess as a developer this approach is useful if your first version is bug ridden, gets terrible reviews and you quickly push an update that fixes them all. Your product is doomed. Maybe after 5 updates or something to an app it should show the 'all ratings' as defaults but before that show 'current version'.

Or, alternatively, if a previously popular app changes hands and turns into semi-malware, it's useful to not get a free 5 star listing.... :)

How often does something like that happen on iOS?
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