Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book • Hacker News Board

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#91

Post by good_vibes » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 9:01 AM UTC

E6300 wrote: post #87

good_vibes wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about pseudo-scientific anything dude. 1.) A meat-based diet is directly linked to higher cancer rates. "The World Health Organization has determined that dietary factors account for at least 30 percent of all cancers in Western countries and up to 20 percent in developing countries. When cancer researchers started to search for links between diet and cancer, one of the most noticeable findings was th…

You have not addressed my counter-argument. I'm not interested in defending "meat-based diets". I'm simply attacking your pseudo-medicine. > We have a society whose delusions cause diseases and destruction around the world. If I was wrong, there wouldn't be so many brilliant scientists, doctors, artists, and entrepreneurs on this same train of thought. Argumentum ad populum. > Yoga, meditation, plant-based diet have…

"Your pseudo-medicine"? lol. I never claimed anything as mine and last I checked Indians are very involved in the medical field.

I'm not interested in discussing this with you, I have work to do. Things don't have to be this or that, they can be both. You obviously are looking for an argument because you missed my original points in the original comment.

You obviously don't know your Bay Area history. ;)

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#92

Post by gus_massa » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 10:02 AM UTC

yeukhon wrote: post #5

13of40 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone commented on the site that it's a 17th century reproduction.

Also while those are Han, the language is sophisticated to regular Chinese readers. I can't even make sense of the words (individually yes) as a native Chinese speaker. A far as paper writing, I found [1] which said roughly 100 A.D. some paper production began. [1]: http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/tien-hsia.php?searchte...

Can you make an annotated version? Nothing fancy, if you add the translation with paintbrush and host it in imgur, I'll be completely happy.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#93

Post by sn41 » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:16 AM UTC

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #86

sn41 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe true. The emphasis was on calculations. For example, there was a heliocentric model in India [1], which was too complicated to come from a "simple" mechanical model, but was quite accurate. But I think we should not be too eager to jump on to "science is only from laws" bandwagon. Courses on the philosophy of science take this dogma to absurd extremes, ignoring how current science is often done. There is enough…

Feynman can counter this much better than I can, "Feynman on pseudo science" https://vimeo.com/118188988

Ancient science is not the same as pseudoscience.

The problem with a lot of the ancient sources is the lack of proofs. What I am arguing is that lack of proofs in ancient mathematical texts doesn't mean that it is all bunkum, and the authors did not know what they were talking about.

I am not talking cultural relativism or "social science is a science" relativism.

Again, another example: Euler is the father of modern analysis, through his "Analysis of the Infinite" [1]. None of his proofs are rigorous according to modern standards. Do you think Feynman would've called Euler a fool?

[1] http://www.maa.org/press/periodicals/convergence/mathematica...

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#94

Post by proteinbased » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:32 AM UTC

sn41 wrote: post #58

jernfrost wrote: post #50

From what I understand, the Chinese had often recorded many facts about nature and mathematics very early and accurately. However they never really created much laws. Laws of nature was a western invention. E.g. they observed accurately planetary movements, but never attempted to formulate the laws governing those movements. That sort of thinking was crucial for scientific thinking.

Maybe true. The emphasis was on calculations. For example, there was a heliocentric model in India [1], which was too complicated to come from a "simple" mechanical model, but was quite accurate. But I think we should not be too eager to jump on to "science is only from laws" bandwagon. Courses on the philosophy of science take this dogma to absurd extremes, ignoring how current science is often done. There is enough…

Regarding bicycles, I feel compelled to share one of my favourite articles on wikipedia. [1] Still, I think the point you made is valid.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_and_motorcycle_dynamic...

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#95

Post by manmal » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:35 AM UTC

jernfrost wrote: post #50

From what I understand, the Chinese had often recorded many facts about nature and mathematics very early and accurately. However they never really created much laws. Laws of nature was a western invention. E.g. they observed accurately planetary movements, but never attempted to formulate the laws governing those movements. That sort of thinking was crucial for scientific thinking.

Yes, induction is what makes our progress possible.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#96

Post by jdietrich » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:57 AM UTC

good_vibes wrote: post #72

bmh100 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These divisions are very important. As long as mystical beliefs towards Eastern thought are used to cause real harm through herbal remedies and supplements, the public must be taught to give it less importance. Among critical thinkers, it is valuable to look for similarities in scientific histories.

Big Pharm and meat-based diet do a lot more harm to the entire biosphere and individuals than Ayurvedic medicine and yoga. Don't even get me started. I don't know much about Eastern medicine outside of India to be honest. One exception: Chinese people buy tiger bone Viagra, elephant tusk art, rhino horn something, and shark fin soup. I was born Hindu but became closer to Buddhist as I learned more about the scientifi…

Meat is unarguably bad, but the pharmaceuticals industry is the closest thing we have to a miracle factory. It has spared us from the miseries of polio, tuberculosis, smallpox, AIDS, surgery without anaesthetic and a thousand other horrors. Diseases that were once death sentences are now treatable with medications that cost pennies. Countless millions of lives have been saved by vaccination.

Ayurvedic medicine clearly does more harm than good. It has never been shown to be significantly more effective than placebo. Ayurveda poses a major risk of heavy metal poisoning, due to the pseudoscientific theories of rasa shastra.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755247/

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#97

Post by moomin » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 12:00 PM UTC

jeffwass wrote: post #40

moomin wrote: post #34

I know you can use the second diagram to prove the theorem, but it requires an algebraic argument (the other two squares aren't shown). Unless the text says something pretty interesting, this looks more like a proof just for a 3,4,5 triangle. The first diagram I can't get my head round at all, or is it proving something different?

The first and second diagrams are similar, just using the 'outside' vs 'inside' deconstruction. If we label the sides a=3, b=4, and c=5 : The first diagram shows that the big outer square of length (a+b) equals the area of the 4 triangles plus the rotated square of side c. (a+b)^2 = 2ab + c^2 [I'm not sure why they drew an inner 3x3 square on its own]. The second diagram puts the same four triangles inside the rotate…

Yeah, the inner square is confusing.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#98

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 12:04 PM UTC

sn41 wrote: post #58

jernfrost wrote: post #50

From what I understand, the Chinese had often recorded many facts about nature and mathematics very early and accurately. However they never really created much laws. Laws of nature was a western invention. E.g. they observed accurately planetary movements, but never attempted to formulate the laws governing those movements. That sort of thinking was crucial for scientific thinking.

Maybe true. The emphasis was on calculations. For example, there was a heliocentric model in India [1], which was too complicated to come from a "simple" mechanical model, but was quite accurate. But I think we should not be too eager to jump on to "science is only from laws" bandwagon. Courses on the philosophy of science take this dogma to absurd extremes, ignoring how current science is often done. There is enough…

Which is why it is so important that written knowledge survives civilizations, so that future generations can learn from the past.

With our current focus on digital media and "cloud", there won't be anything left in 2100 years for people to have a blick of what we are doing.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#99

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 12:12 PM UTC

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #24

elevensies wrote: post #11

So if I'm understanding correctly, this is evidence that about 300 years after the death of Pythagoras, his proof "travelled" over the silk road to China?

I was thinking the same thing. It's easy to forget just how much the ancient Greeks accomplished 2,500 years ago.

I always wonder myself when I get to read ancient manuscripts and get to compare with modern days.

As humans we always lived a kind of ups and downs, regarding use of technology, relationships among countries, how open/closed the societies used to be, how travelling was seen and so on.

For example, in the ancient world there was already a kind of Erasmus, as Greek medicine students used to spend a few years with Egyptian doctors before getting back home and start practising.

Re: Pythagorean Theorem proof in a 2100 year old Chinese book

#100

Post by IIAOPSW » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 12:15 PM UTC

contingencies wrote: post #66

jernfrost wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gives a shit? It is almost always Americans making such statements, obsessed as they are about being number one. If Chine gets richer and more technologically advance that would be good for them and good for us westerners. It is not a zero sum game. Although to be realistic I don't think China will ever outcompete the US. Not because I don't want them to, but simply because so many fundamentals count in Americas…

I agree with the non zero-sum point, however... China is facing a demographic catastrophe. Strongly disagree. The view on the ground in China is great. Almost everyone has their material needs exceeded, many sectors of infrastructure are second to none, education and internationalization of tastes is increasing, and the society is generally very safe. E-vehicles and e-commerce are everywhere. Rent a bicycle for nothi…

>China is facing a demographic catastrophe.

you didn't refute that. you just said "life on the ground today is good." That's why its called a cliff. Things are pretty good right up to the moment you fall off.

>FYI: minimum wage in most Chinese cities for an unskilled foreigner with any kind of get up and go is 200CNY/hr

But that's not the same thing as minimum wage. Many many Chinese people earn less than that. When you're a Chinese person you can't just hit up your mate on wechat for some bullshit English teaching job whenever you want beer money.