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Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

reuters.com

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Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#91

Post by stormbrew »

kazinator wrote: post #56
stormbrew wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source on the CRA not allowing cabbies to be contractors? Because as far as I know they almost universally are. Either to the owner of the cab they drive or to the dispatcher.

If cabbies are contractors, there is still the question of who handles the rider's money. I'm a software development contractor myself. But I don't handle the revenue of the company or companies I work for, from their customers. So the GST on that revenue is none of my business at all. Similarly, a cab company could operate such that cabbies are contractors, but the company collects the fares, and then pays the cabbi…

I actually agree that Uber should be itemizing and charging GST in their fares. But I think that's a separate issue to whether or not drivers are considered employees (and I think the law and precedent is actually on Uber's side there, for better or worse). Regardless, as they're providing a service in Canada they should be charging GST.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#92

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

narrowrail wrote: post #80
peeters wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it quacks like a duck, it gets taxed like a duck. Uber has made a business out of exploiting legal loopholes. They know it, their users know it, the politicians know it. It's just been a race to close them. I have no sympathy for Uber in this. They obviously provide a valuable service to people, so I'm sure they'll survive. Now they'll just be competing on an even playing field.

I used to work for Landstar[0], which operates in a very similar way to Uber, but in the trucking industry. The company has been around for almost 30 years and the drivers are considered Owner-Operators[1] (i.e. contractors). I was under the impression that an Uber driver could choose not to take any given fare(just like our truckers could). There seems to be some irrationality when it comes to Uber among my fellow e…

Imo the contractor designation should be limited to people who have pricing power for their work. Uber drivers have none.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#93

Post by onion2k »

brandon272 wrote: post #8
legulere wrote: post #2

Slowly the price advantage that Uber has by using loopholes fades away.

Where I live, Uber charges less than half of what cab companies charge. But there are other ancillary benefits. Uber could be at parity with the cab companies but I would still prefer it because of: 1) Their app 2) The reliability of getting car with them vs. waiting for a cab. 3) Their vehicles are much, much, much nicer than cabs in my area. 4) The purchase experience.

Where I live, Uber charges less than half of what cab companies charge.

Have you ever asked yourself how they do that? It's not like taxi drivers are fabulously wealthy.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#94

Post by slavik81 »

CountSessine wrote: post #83
chollida1 wrote: post #9

Uber's response. http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/statement-from-uber-can... One interesting note about the press release to the Canadian newswire service, it highlights that Uber was confounded by Canadian Garret Camp. This is set to go live on July 1st so I guess you can watch the data from that point on to see if it has any effect. > The budget statement estimates the change will raise C$3 million in new reven…

it highlights that Uber was confounded by Canadian Garret Camp s/confounded/co-founded/cg Sorry for the nit-pick, but in this case the word confounded had me genuinely confused about what this special interest group, Canadian Garret Camp, is (are they angel investors? some sort of VC incubator? a front-group for taxi companies?), and why they were lobbying for removing Uber's GST exemption.

To state that more clearly, Garret Camp is a person. He is a Canadian businessman and co-founded Uber along with Travis Kalanick.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#95

Post by username223 »

briandear wrote: post #67
madeofpalk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers never buy anything from Stripe or Square. Consumer buy ride services from Uber.

So Etsy should be charging GST and every other marketplace app out there. Uber is a broker not a transportation company. Other than their self driving experiments, they don't operate a single car.

Does Etsy tell people which doodads to crochet, then kick them off if they make different ones?

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#96

Post by narrowrail »

zht wrote: post #84
narrowrail wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work for Landstar[0], which operates in a very similar way to Uber, but in the trucking industry. The company has been around for almost 30 years and the drivers are considered Owner-Operators[1] (i.e. contractors). I was under the impression that an Uber driver could choose not to take any given fare(just like our truckers could). There seems to be some irrationality when it comes to Uber among my fellow e…

if the Landstar drivers refuse too many fares are they banned forever from the system?

Not officially, but I'm sure it was happening. Each individual Landstar broker operates independently as well, so if a given driver is constantly saying no, I am certain the broker would stop calling that driver (or at least put them further down the list). It was obviously a more 'manual' and distributed process, that started in the 70's with companies like Dial-a-Truck:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial-a-truck

These systems morphed into what is called a 'load board,' and Landstar operated what was more of a network of independent trucking brokers with their own shared/ private load board.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#97

Post by adrr »

basch wrote: post #31
BillyParadise wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed re. contractors. When you use the Uber app, you pay Uber. Not Joe Shmoe and his nice newish car. Therefore the HST should be payable, to Uber. In turn, drivers who earn > $30k should provide their HST number to Uber, and Uber should be billed HST in remittances. In turn, drivers can write off HST paid on all business-related expenses. Yay, Value Added Taxes.

Stripe, Square? What makes Uber different from payment processors with built in fraud protection layers?

Uber controls the cost of goods/service.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#98

Post by username223 »

makmanalp wrote: post #88
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would basically mean the end of taxis and uber. Just mass public transportation and guys running everything by themselves would survive.

Am I honestly to believe the tech industry can shoot a rocket into space and do any number of miraculous things, but can't create a solvent cab hailing service that pays workers living wages and basic benefits? The word benefits makes it sound like it's a luxury, but stuff like healthcare and retirement planning is anything but, especially for low income workers. Somehow when it comes to innovation, the last place we…

> Am I honestly to believe the tech industry can shoot a rocket into space and do any number of miraculous things, but can't create a solvent cab hailing service that pays workers living wages and basic benefits?

Yes. The rocket thing is the current apogee of a (remarkably phallic) ego war between billionaires. Most automation that would truly benefit society is boring, low-margin work. There's no massive ROI in scrubbing out a toilet or mopping a floor, so we continue to pay humans survival wages to do that kind of miserable work. For these Industry Titans, a $2.5 million hypercar just doesn't do it anymore. Robert Mercer's 200-foot, 4-story yacht with an elevator is okay, but Elon Musk's rocket shooting other people off to die on Mars (or likely partway) is a real dominance display.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#99

Post by anomaly_ »

madeofpalk wrote: post #53
thrill wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber drivers are not employees. They are independent contractors. Uber, as part of their service, collects money from riders, giving both the rider and the driver a comfort factor as they don't have to deal with cash. As "hobby" businesses they each individually were enjoying the exemption. Now they will not - because we can't have "hobby" businesses causing discomfort to the well connected.

Naa, that's bullshit. I download the Uber app, Uber finds me a ride, Uber sets the price, Uber charges me, and I pay Uber. Uber should be collecting GST/sales tax. I don't understand how else you could look at it! Uber is essentially doing the same thing here in Australia and the courts are getting involved to make a ruling.

It's a little different in Australia. The GST registration threshold is $75,000, but there is a specific carve out for taxis that forces registration/collection of GST for taxis regardless of turnover. The ATO (and now the Federal Court) aren't challenging the contractor/employee position of Uber - rather just that the individual drivers should be collecting and remitting GST on their fares.

Re: Canada seeks to end Uber's tax advantage over taxi companies

#100

Post by sekasi »

aianus wrote: post #5
objclxt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slowly the price advantage that Uber has by using loopholes fades away. They don't even always have a price advantage anymore, especially if there's a surge. I needed a cab from Chicago Midway to my hotel last night, Uber's upfront price was $48 (and an eight minute wait), a regular taxi was $40 (including 15% tip) and no wait. I took the latter.

In my experience, whenever Uber is surging enough to make cabs cheaper (2.5x in my city), there are no cabs to be found. That or the cabs try to scam you by asking for extra cash off meter (happened to me on New Year's Eve).

It's interesting that you call Uber 'surging' but cabbies doing the same 'scamming'. I understand what you're saying but they are quite comparable..
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