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White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

washingtonpost.com

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Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#91

Post by thecpphorse »

oddlyaromatic wrote: post #76
PKop wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing loan guarantees, and forcing students to scrutinize the value of the degree they are pursuing will improve the problem of students blindly doing what they've been told to do. If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it? Any possible improvement of the status quo is going to involve pain. Certainly universities themselves could start feeling some of it, as…

I come from a country where my education was paid for by other people's tax money. I studied the subjects where my curiosity was greatest, and though I don't work in that field now, I do rely on things I learned through my college experience almost every day, and they make me better at my current job. Overall they make me a better contributor to the world around me, and I also have this feeling of gratitude that my w…

I am from the US and the government also paid for my education entirely, no strings attached. I could have studied Byzantine erotica if I had wanted. This is not a US vs world issue.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#92

Post by kartan »

PKop wrote: post #38
nhangen wrote: post #10

I'm surprised by the comments here. I am a fiscal conservative, but having taken and struggled to pay for student loans, and having hired people in the same situation, find that the lending programs are predatory by nature in that they know students will be unable to service the high monthly payments, and eventually default as a result. Do I think people should pay their debt? Yes, but these lenders are the same lend…

Removing loan guarantees, and forcing students to scrutinize the value of the degree they are pursuing will improve the problem of students blindly doing what they've been told to do. If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it? Any possible improvement of the status quo is going to involve pain. Certainly universities themselves could start feeling some of it, as…

> If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it?

So when you are young and still have no degree nor experience in life you should be punished if you choose wrong. Unless you are rich, then if you choose wrong you have a second opportunity.

Shouldn't some of the burden be on the institutions offering the degrees? They have the money, they have the knowledge, they have resources, they should suffer a good part of the consequences of offering bad degrees.

Aren't the students with a degree that doesn't offer financial stability already punished? Aren't their dreams of having a career already broken? Isn't adding the burden of debt over that just cruelty for the benefit of for-profit education institutions?

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#93

Post by taurath »

thecpphorse wrote: post #91
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from a country where my education was paid for by other people's tax money. I studied the subjects where my curiosity was greatest, and though I don't work in that field now, I do rely on things I learned through my college experience almost every day, and they make me better at my current job. Overall they make me a better contributor to the world around me, and I also have this feeling of gratitude that my w…

I am from the US and the government also paid for my education entirely, no strings attached. I could have studied Byzantine erotica if I had wanted. This is not a US vs world issue.

The Average student loan debt post graduation in the US is $40k now, so I'd say it's a hell of a lot bigger problem in the US than the rest of the modern world.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#94

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

kartan wrote: post #92
PKop wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing loan guarantees, and forcing students to scrutinize the value of the degree they are pursuing will improve the problem of students blindly doing what they've been told to do. If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it? Any possible improvement of the status quo is going to involve pain. Certainly universities themselves could start feeling some of it, as…

> If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it? So when you are young and still have no degree nor experience in life you should be punished if you choose wrong. Unless you are rich, then if you choose wrong you have a second opportunity. Shouldn't some of the burden be on the institutions offering the degrees? They have the money, they have the knowledge, they hav…

The deeper problem is that we link education with employment and leave it at that.

Vocational and apprenticeship programs are excellent ways for people to learn useful skills while remaining gainfully employed.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#95

Post by oddlyaromatic »

thecpphorse wrote: post #91
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from a country where my education was paid for by other people's tax money. I studied the subjects where my curiosity was greatest, and though I don't work in that field now, I do rely on things I learned through my college experience almost every day, and they make me better at my current job. Overall they make me a better contributor to the world around me, and I also have this feeling of gratitude that my w…

I am from the US and the government also paid for my education entirely, no strings attached. I could have studied Byzantine erotica if I had wanted. This is not a US vs world issue.

I was not clear that I was responding in part to parent's idea about "useless" degrees not being worth money. I'm glad your education was such. ... But I also seem to have the impression that this is not the norm in the US- that you have to pay out of pocket or with loans for the most prestigious schools? In Ireland you compete with other students academically but not financially. At least in theory. Like I said, not perfect. If free higher education is available, why do 18 year olds take on large debts to pay for it?

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#96

Post by pilsetnieks »

brianwawok wrote: post #35
brogrammer2 wrote: post #26

Sometimes I do wonder why American Universities charge exorbitant tuition fee? Education being the bedrock of an advanced society, isn't but natural the developed economies like US should be able to subsidize education to such an extant that youth of country don't have to worry about paying their tuition fee and focus more on learning and innovation that will take everyone forward. It is but a reflection on the sad s…

> Sometimes I do wonder why American Universities charge exorbitant tuition fee? Students demand a lot. Good profs. Dorms with AC. Sports teams. Medical care. All that cost a lot. States and federal gov't pays less each year. The difference has to come from somewhere? In any case, its not perfect but I will take US colleges 100x over Japanese Colleges or Chinese Colleges or Mexican Colleges or 98% of the colleges in…

I bet they'd gladly pay $10'000 less per year even if it meant no $100M football stadium.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#97

Post by asabjorn »

thecpphorse wrote: post #90
PKop wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing loan guarantees, and forcing students to scrutinize the value of the degree they are pursuing will improve the problem of students blindly doing what they've been told to do. If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it? Any possible improvement of the status quo is going to involve pain. Certainly universities themselves could start feeling some of it, as…

Why should lenders not be punished for financing the useless degree? After all the availability of easy financing drives up the price of the useless education. Remember, the "moral hazard" spoken of in financial bailouts is that the lenders aren't being punished for taking bad risks.

I agree. A little bit more demand constraint for taking out debt for degrees that provide little opportunity return would be great. Would save a lot of people from great stress.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#98

Post by sokoloff »

mindslight wrote: post #66
UpDownLeftRight wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't pay student loans. Do you know why? I don't have them. I went to an inexpensive local school, worked while going to school, and took the public bus to and from it. (I was fortunate enough to be able to live with my parents.) While I don't know your situation, it's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who went to an expensive private school, lived on campus in a "country club" atmosphere, and then expects the…

Talking about "taxpayers" is disingenuous at best - the private loan holders are the ones that made the unwise loans and should be directly losing out. To the extent that these private parties have agreements with USG guaranteeing they'll be bailed out, then the proper time to object to that corrupt arrangement was when it was being made! Debt, in general, must be dischargeable in bankruptcy. Otherwise the practice i…

Student loans are not dischargable because there is nothing that can be repossessed and you don't want to allow graduates declaring bankruptcy at 21 to wipe out the debt. (Most people with large debt would be better served to immediately declare bankruptcy than to even attempt paying them off.)

Under such a system, once lenders stopped lending, college would again become available primarily to the wealthy.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#99

Post by [deleted] »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #96
brianwawok wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes I do wonder why American Universities charge exorbitant tuition fee? Students demand a lot. Good profs. Dorms with AC. Sports teams. Medical care. All that cost a lot. States and federal gov't pays less each year. The difference has to come from somewhere? In any case, its not perfect but I will take US colleges 100x over Japanese Colleges or Chinese Colleges or Mexican Colleges or 98% of the colleges in…

I bet they'd gladly pay $10'000 less per year even if it meant no $100M football stadium.

[deleted]

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#100

Post by thecpphorse »

oddlyaromatic wrote: post #95
thecpphorse wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from the US and the government also paid for my education entirely, no strings attached. I could have studied Byzantine erotica if I had wanted. This is not a US vs world issue.

I was not clear that I was responding in part to parent's idea about "useless" degrees not being worth money. I'm glad your education was such. ... But I also seem to have the impression that this is not the norm in the US- that you have to pay out of pocket or with loans for the most prestigious schools? In Ireland you compete with other students academically but not financially. At least in theory. Like I said, not…

As you say, it is academic competition that leads to what American teens call the "free ride".
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