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Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

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Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#91
post #43

I'm opposed to all advertising and marketing on ethical grounds. In my book human attention isn't for sale, and all attempts to sell my attention will be dealt with by technical means with extreme prejudice. It's true that content producers need to get paid; it's not true that human attention is an acceptable currency for which this payment must be exchanged. Find some other way. Show some fucking adaptability.

> it's not true that human attention is an acceptable currency

Why? How about people decide what they feel is acceptable for themselves. The answer is choice between advertising and payment, ideally a slider to dial your preferred setting.

Extremes never work.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#92

We're one of the companies on the committee. Lots of strong emotions here, as usual with anything ad related on HN. The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. Yes, it's not ideal and the online implementation is poorly done most of the time. It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire industry that force bad formats, fraudsters, malware, and…

Not a single comment about malware. I will NEVER again install an app that is ad supported because I got malware on my phone because I merely started an app that served an ad from god knows where.

Unless you deal with this issue, I'm going to continue to use uBlock Origin and uMatrix. Once sites close up, I'll decide to pay the fee, or not. I'll likely not pay the fee and find something else to do with my time.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#93
post #8

And if you don't want acceptable ads, use uBlock Origin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin... https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpa... https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock

How long until the ABP guys stop their generosity and either 1) incorporate its acceptable ads into EasyList (which they maintain) or 2) block every other ad-blocker from leeching off their lists. I predict former. There are already tons of white-listed rules in EasyList.

Until other ad blockers actually start to maintain their separate list, I don't see a reason to stop using ABP. Ghostery is the only extension that doesn't use EasyList as far as I know. But they too have their own telemetry tracking.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer a paywall? Seriously asking

No I prefer everything to be free, open source, organic, and made by volunteers. You can stop pretending that there are only two options.

Obviously there are more than two options, but I'm asking about your preference between those two. You can give me a ranking of order of preference for all the different options you can think of if you prefer, but I'm mostly interested where paywalls fall in relation to ads.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#95
post #92

We're one of the companies on the committee. Lots of strong emotions here, as usual with anything ad related on HN. The fact is that advertising pays for much of the internet content you consume for free. Yes, it's not ideal and the online implementation is poorly done most of the time. It's because of perverse incentives and a lack of regulation in the entire industry that force bad formats, fraudsters, malware, and…

Not a single comment about malware. I will NEVER again install an app that is ad supported because I got malware on my phone because I merely started an app that served an ad from god knows where. Unless you deal with this issue, I'm going to continue to use uBlock Origin and uMatrix. Once sites close up, I'll decide to pay the fee, or not. I'll likely not pay the fee and find something else to do with my time.

Our company has no malware. We don't run any 3rd party content or tags and everything is simple, static, fast and non-intrusive native ads.

That being said, other companies do run 3rd party tags/content and since it's impossible to verify this completely, they're open to malware and fraud. Until advertisers stop sending them money, there's not much I can do about it.

However committees like this and working with adblockers and other industry groups to put some rules and, more importantly enforcement, in place has the potential to finally change things.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#96
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's done this way at the time, it doesn't mean it's right. To be fair, the monetization of "free" content should be done different way: utility payment model is the way to go. YouTube Red got it right, they just haven't pushed it all the way - eliminate ALL ads. Apple Music and Spotify got it right too. As a customer, I have fixed amount of hours to spent in a day to consume content, so content provider…

Right for who though? The important thing is to have choice as a consumer, both ads and paid or ideally a spectrum between both extremes. Advertising is the most egalitarian method because everyone regardless of money can access the same things. This is an important issue in a world full of great wealth and power disparity. Also what you're asking for is basically a cable bundle for the internet. It's in the works by…

First of all it's not like cable bundle - you pay flat fee to access EVERYTHING like utility (probably % of your ISP bill). Call it content tax, if you will (BBC in UK is funded this way). Internet is NOT free anyway. Then whatever you paid goes to authors in a share proportional to content value consumed (I don't want to go into weeds on how to evaluate fair price for the content, but it's possible).

It is right for content consumer: no annoying ads, no interruptions, no more punishment for using "free" content by being blasted with non-relevant junk.

It is right for the content creator: you rewarded for high quality content, not for ads shows (natural flow of interests) -> no need to beg visitors to disable adblockers (this is what some youtubers do). BTW, IMHO, this is also a very good and organic way to "embrace" piracy - just redirect torrents income share to copyright holders - nobody will ever fight torrents after that point.

Ad companies is unnecessary middle-man in this relationship. And this middle-man will be eventually eliminated for good. I understand that you represent one, but there's still market for ad companies in other areas - where ads are relevant to context (like when I'm searching to get a new car or fix my fridge). Ads should help users, not annoy them.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"content" has a very wide meaning and there are millions of people who have worked incredibly hard on content you read and watch online. Surely you understand this? Or are you only consuming meme gifs or something?

> "Surely you understand this?" It's my whole point. Being a "content creator" is irrelevant, and not deserving of making money. Billions of people are creating content all day, every day. The vast majority of it is crap. Good content creators will find a way to get paid. So, going back to the original comment: "Do you expect content producers to get paid" No. I don't "expect" it, and neither should they. If you can'…

> Good content creators will find a way to get paid.

Spoken like someone who has never known an artist.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something Ive been curious about, and as one of the companies on that committee I wonder what your thoughts are on this. I honestly expected advertising industry folks to recognize the adblock problem and to take meaningful action long before the prevalence of adblocking tech got to this stage of such common household use . Instead, it feels like they've doubled down on the obnoxious ads. I figured they'd rea…

Perverse incentives and lack of regulation means nobody cares. The adtech industry isn't full of idiots, it's thousands of people like you and me. Most people know how it all works, but unfortunately these companies are currently setup to make money on data and scale by any means - not by quality. The advertisers who hold all the money could do something by only spending it on good vendors - but who's going to tell t…

> The adtech industry isn't full of idiots, it's thousands of people like you and me.

> The advertisers who hold all the money could do something by only spending it on good vendors - but who's going to tell them that?

I guess I always figured (hoped?) that the folks like you and I, but in that industry, would speak up to the folks buying the ads, but you're right: Us folks aren't the ones selling the ad campaigns to the folks with the money.

Vendors can't be that aloof though.. can they? Surely they're aware of the impact that poor advertising campaigns can have on their brand? Are you seeing any hints of that?

> Also the most annoying ads are the ones that show the most "engagement" - precisely because they are annoying.

From what you've seen, would you say that despite the growing prevalence of adblockers, these types of "engaging" adverts are still the most profitable today?

I mean, I figured one of the reasons ad companies were getting so vocal about adblockers lately is that it was starting to impact their bottom line. Perhaps just not enough to spur real change yet.

Do you think ad companies will change their ways when adblocking starts to have a more significant impact on them financially, or do you see them as too stuck in their ways, perhaps needing to be unseated by startups who aren't afraid to push respectable advertising and raise the bar?

One of my takeaways from watching the documentary "Art & Copy" was that advertising can be respectable and engaging without being intrusive and in your face, but I can't think of very many recent examples of that. A diminishing art form perhaps.

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#99
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Do you pay for your media?

I find that the best media is created by people who have a job other than "content creation to farm eyeballs for ads". If advertising disappeared, there'd be a lot less crap on the internet.

>I find that the best media is created by people who have a job

Dude, where do you think their salaries come from?

>If advertising disappeared, there'd be a lot less crap on the internet.

Also Google wouldn't exist...

Re: Adblock Plus announces members of independent Acceptable Ads Committee

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perverse incentives and lack of regulation means nobody cares. The adtech industry isn't full of idiots, it's thousands of people like you and me. Most people know how it all works, but unfortunately these companies are currently setup to make money on data and scale by any means - not by quality. The advertisers who hold all the money could do something by only spending it on good vendors - but who's going to tell t…

> The adtech industry isn't full of idiots, it's thousands of people like you and me. > The advertisers who hold all the money could do something by only spending it on good vendors - but who's going to tell them that? I guess I always figured (hoped?) that the folks like you and I, but in that industry, would speak up to the folks buying the ads, but you're right: Us folks aren't the ones selling the ad campaigns to…

Vendors? They have no brand to worry about. The current markets are built on volume with their profits as a percentage of total ad spend by their clients - so it's in their interest to run as many ads as possible. Worrying about things like quality and fraud only reduces revenue so they just look the other way.

Fraud isn't that hard to combat - these companies know who they're paying since you have to write a check eventually. It's a business problem, not a technical problem, but as long as there is money to be made, vendors wont stop their habits.

The major advertisers do have brands to worry about, but there is so much confusion with thousands of vendors and multiple layers of agencies that it's hard for any marketing team to really know where exactly their ads are running online. Some companies are paying more attention now with the current political climate but there's not much change yet.

Yes, the annoying formats are more engaging and get more money and are thus more profitable to run. Buyers want as many video ads as possible so vendors complied and stuck them everywhere they could. This is why you have autoplay sticky videos on every page, because buyers keep buying them and the numbers look good - nevermind silly details like the fact that people hate them and didnt really have a choice to interact.

Can things be better? Will the situation change? Yes. Adblocking still isn't big enough but that's why this committee is progress - it allows the few companies/startups who are willing to do things different to set the rules and finally get the leverage they need against ad buyers. If the only way to advertise to the increasingly valuable but unreachable adblocking users is through vendors who follow these rules, then the market will change in response and the legacy companies and practices will finally go away. The buyers = the money = the power. Shape the way the money flows and change will follow.

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