Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux • Hacker News Board

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#91

Post by baldfat » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 7:49 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #80

baldfat wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never in my life seen a Mac out perform a Window machine when it comes to latency and professional audio recording. When it comes to $100-$200 parts it comes to drivers and sometimes Mac wins and sometimes Windows wins. I have a bias that goes beyond Pro-Tools but Pro-Tools was a thing because Apple hardware was not capable of producing Professional level recording without spending thousands of dollars in thei…

> Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue and both platforms require a lot of end user work to get lower and lower latency. As the other commentor said, Core Audio "just works" for low latency. MIDI is great as well. Windows still needs third party ASIO drivers. If a USB MIDI controller gets unplugged during a set on Windows, I need to restart Ableton. On Mac, you just plug it back in and it…

Well we will disagree 100% I don't think we are talking the same thing. BUT latency (aka delay) in audio recording is a HUGE deal. When someone is playing to a click track and previous recorded pieces and have that person perform with that delay makes it even worse. It's impact on the ability for the drummer to perform has made it default to record drums first. The difference between on beat, before beat or after beat is very significant.

Give this a read - https://www.presonus.com/community/Learn/The-Truth-About-Dig...

Live audio if you have above the human perception of latency you are in the realm of 20 or 30 ms.

> Edit, hell many of the best audio interfaces don't even support Windows as a platform.

What can I say marketing works and this perceived Mac superior creative types tool is believed by most people. In actual Professional world there are plenty of Windows based studios that won Emmy's, Oscars and Grammys.

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#92

Post by diminish » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 8:29 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #86

diminish wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's effective, cheap but non innovative and a me too product. I bet it won't exist in 10 years in DAW business. It's feature set is a "me too" set of everything which exists with minimal innovative features on top. please don't misunderstand. I have no horse in this race. I like Reaper as much as I liked WinZip , winamp or Notepad++. But I wouldn't say it's enough to keep Windows installed on a private computer.

> I bet it won't exist in 10 years in DAW business. It's already 11 years old... [0] > It's feature set is a "me too" set of everything which exists with minimal innovative features on top. I don't even feel like getting into this, but it looks like the troll is winning: Parameter Modulation, unlimited nesting/grouping/takes. Dynamically create and split audio channels on one track. Mixing of MIDI and Audio in one tr…

I m referring to GP comment saying he keeps Windows just for Reaper and you validate my point. And I m talking about the next 10 years obviously. Reaper is a clean, neat, easy to use DAW with many features for beginner and intermediate user. It s a very well written piece of software with a fair price.

Are you really using it for professional work or have seen anyone use it? And what are some features other DAWs can dream of; the ones you counted above?

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#93

Post by ghostly_s » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 8:30 PM UTC

n00b101 wrote: post #88

donquichotte wrote: post #10

I have tried Hydrogen some time ago when I tried to build a linux audio workstation with Jack and Ardour. As much as it pains me to say this, don't expect it to be even remotely as good as commercial software drum machines like EZDrummer, Superior Drummer or Studio Drummer in terms of sample quality or usability. Generally, I found it prohibitively complicated to set up a well-working low-latency audio workstation, e…

> I found it prohibitively complicated to set up a well-working low-latency audio workstation, even though I had one of the few soundcards that had drivers for Linux (Edirol FA-101). I don't know anything about your area, but it sounds like a pre-built Linux image with realtime kernel and maybe some custom driver setup would be useful here. I use LinuxCNC [1] and they provide a super-convenient Linux image that take…

There are a number of these targeted at Linux audio production: http://linux-sound.org/distro.html

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#94

Post by squeaky-clean » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 8:37 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #91

squeaky-clean wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue and both platforms require a lot of end user work to get lower and lower latency. As the other commentor said, Core Audio "just works" for low latency. MIDI is great as well. Windows still needs third party ASIO drivers. If a USB MIDI controller gets unplugged during a set on Windows, I need to restart Ableton. On Mac, you just plug it back in and it…

Well we will disagree 100% I don't think we are talking the same thing. BUT latency (aka delay) in audio recording is a HUGE deal. When someone is playing to a click track and previous recorded pieces and have that person perform with that delay makes it even worse. It's impact on the ability for the drummer to perform has made it default to record drums first. The difference between on beat, before beat or after bea…

> BUT latency (aka delay) in audio recording is a HUGE deal. When someone is playing to a click track and previous recorded pieces and have that person perform with that delay makes it even worse.

Please dude, look up latency compensation. You have zero idea what you're talking about and it's obvious.

> In actual Professional world there are plenty of Windows based studios that won Emmy's, Oscars and Grammys.

I don't believe I ever said otherwise. But to say Mac never outperforms Windows for audio is wrong. And to say Mac requires just as much setup work as Windows is a flat out lie.

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#95

Post by squeaky-clean » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 8:40 PM UTC

dwringer wrote: post #89

eropple wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue Core Audio literally-just-works with low latency and aggregated devices. DAWs on Windows still either use MME/DX for north of 50ms, often 100ms+ latency or ASIO (exclusive device usage and no aggregation, assuming your hardware even has ASIO drivers because ASIO4ALL is at best rickety) on Windows. I don't know what you think is going on with OS X, but…

... but with ASIO, it is quite possible to get 3ms latency in Windows at 96kHz. I agree it would be nice if the device weren't locked up by the DAW using ASIO, or if updated driver support weren't so hit-and miss, but it still works exceptionally well for what it is. It also makes Windows completely viable as a production platform.

No one here is saying Windows isn't a viable platform. Just arguing that OSX also works well, if not better by default. You yourself just listed some examples where Windows cannot do things that OSX can (device exclusivity through ASIO).

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#96

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 8:51 PM UTC

squeaky-clean wrote: post #95

dwringer wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... but with ASIO, it is quite possible to get 3ms latency in Windows at 96kHz. I agree it would be nice if the device weren't locked up by the DAW using ASIO, or if updated driver support weren't so hit-and miss, but it still works exceptionally well for what it is. It also makes Windows completely viable as a production platform.

No one here is saying Windows isn't a viable platform. Just arguing that OSX also works well, if not better by default. You yourself just listed some examples where Windows cannot do things that OSX can (device exclusivity through ASIO).

[deleted]

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#97

Post by gntech » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 8:54 PM UTC

I have heard a lot of good stuff about DrumGizmo[0] lately, it has a very active development as well. Havent had the oppurtunity to try it out yet. But I have recently heard people moving from Hydrogen to DrumGizmo.

[0]: http://www.drumgizmo.org/wiki/

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#98

Post by imhelpingu » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 9:02 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #91

squeaky-clean wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since Windows XP Windows and Audio Latency has not been an issue and both platforms require a lot of end user work to get lower and lower latency. As the other commentor said, Core Audio "just works" for low latency. MIDI is great as well. Windows still needs third party ASIO drivers. If a USB MIDI controller gets unplugged during a set on Windows, I need to restart Ableton. On Mac, you just plug it back in and it…

Well we will disagree 100% I don't think we are talking the same thing. BUT latency (aka delay) in audio recording is a HUGE deal. When someone is playing to a click track and previous recorded pieces and have that person perform with that delay makes it even worse. It's impact on the ability for the drummer to perform has made it default to record drums first. The difference between on beat, before beat or after bea…

The part I don't understand:

If you have a known constant output lag, a known constant input lag, but no lag in the monitor for just the track you're recording, it seems like the software has everything it needs to put back the performance exactly the way you recorded it (and to adjust the offset for the click).

Am I missing something?

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#99

Post by YZF » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC

gens wrote: post #87

squeaky-clean wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise, none of my audio devices have required special drivers for Mac, and I can easily get 3ms latency by just plugging it in and making sure buffer size it at a minimum. I produced on Windows forever and didn't believe there would have been a noticeable difference switching to OSX.

I find bout of your claims hard to believe as OSX has a sound architecture similar to PulseAudio. Are the 3ms measured or is it just what OSX tells you ? A buffer of 3ms at 48kHz holds 144 samples. That means shoveling 144 fresh samples (per channel, ofc) ~333 times a second and sending them to the sound card immediately . That may be possible if your sound card supports resampling (and minor magic) and only without…

The problem isn't the CPU, the problem is the OS going out for lunch, and then designs that assume the OS will go our for lunch (i.e. deep buffers everywhere)... The CPU can move data between devices with sub-microsecond latencies...

Re: Hydrogen – An advanced drum machine for Linux

#100

Post by kruhft » Mon, Mar 06, 2017, 10:18 PM UTC

trickell wrote: post #11

Check out LMMS (Let's Make Music). It's like Ableton for Linux and already has VST's like Hydrogen, etc. built into the software itself: https://lmms.io/

Here's an album I made exclusively with LMMS and it's default setup of sounds and plugins:

https://kruhft.bandcamp.com/album/listener

It's a pretty good piece of software.