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Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

azure.microsoft.com

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Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#91

Microsoft trying hard to get developers to work on their platform and fail has really become very much fun. Microsoft deserves for being evil. Example: Microsoft does not save history in cmd shell(its so irritating for devs). The height of the cruelty is they aliased the curl and wget by default to its own program(do not remember).

[deleted]

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#92
post #72
post #14

AWS needs something like this. The missing piece for the AWS serverless story is a database that is suitable for writing real world applications. DynamoDB is far from suitable for that task, which leaves AWS serverless with no good database.

Cross datacenter replication is the missing piece from AWS. I wish they'd just roll out a hosted Cassandra or something identical

While probably not what you're looking for if you're mentioning Cassandra, RDS does let you have read replicas in any region.

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works well for a CQRS model. Which helps with super high scale apps. But most devs want joins and dont want to take the discipline to manage the data duplication.

I just rolled out a feature on DynamoDB and when monitoring it, I look at one yeah. Provisioned capacity vs consumed capacity. That's all I have to care about. No CPU, RAM, disk space metrics. Usage can increase 4x and performance is flat. It's great. The application is less flexible and required making a lot of decisions up front, but operationally it's fantastic.

For my application I have found it is more complex about provisioned vs consumed capacity. I get throttling all the time when consumed capacity is a third of provisioned capacity.

You also need to care about how DDB does its underlying partitioning. It would be nice to turn the knobs and be able to trust you will get X reads/sec and Y writes/sec, but that is only true per node! Unfortunately, DDB gives you zero information about how many nodes your DDB table is running on! (Yes you can guess pretty well if you keep track of your usage rate and do some math).

So when provisioning, you need to be aware that if you have 100 provisioned read ops, but you have data on 5 nodes, you really only have 20 reads/sec if one key gets hot.

I agree it's pretty easy operationally, but you can get burned if you don't know how it works under the hood.

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#94
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS has RDS - That's most certainly a database suitable for writing real world applications as its MySQL. Does serverless somehow mandate a non SQL solution?

RDS is server based - you need to pay to have an instance running per hour. That's not serverless. That's "serverful".

On the one hand, everything is server based at some level; it's just a question of how much is being hidden from you and managed by a third party.

On the other hand RDS hides a lot of the complexity from you. You don't have to pick an OS, apply updates, secure it, manage it, configure it, or patch it. There are some number of virtual servers out there that are nominally running your RDS cluster, but it's all pretty theoretical.

So I'm not entirely understanding your point.

> you need to pay to have an instance running per hour

You are paying to have instances running with every other DB service too; they may just break it out on your bill a bit differently. :)

The real issue with RDS for me isn't that they haven't removed the server part from the equation (they have), it's that they haven't removed the RDBMS from the equation. Schema changes, data migrations, replicas, sharding, scaling: All the hard parts of running a RDBMS are still there.

If Amazon could somehow make a magical service that accepted SQL queries and somehow returned my data, I'd be ecstatic - but the difference between that and RDS isn't the fact that they're letting me know how much ram the virtual server which is nominally running MySQL for me has.

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#95
post #70
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DynamoDB is effectively useless for querying, except perhaps for some sort of highly specialised application able to fit within the DynamoDB strange and arcane query model. What sort of database is effectively useless for querying? Also they need to ditch the really, really confusiong and limiting scaling model. For a database that advertises scaling as one of its key strengths, DynamoDB sure has a bad scaling story.

Databases in this category are some of the most popular ones in the world with good reason. The only way you can scale is to adopt a query-free architecture. It feels tedious at first but once you develop some good habits and frameworks around denormalization it becomes easy to do that from day one.

>> The only way you can scale is to adopt a query-free architecture

This is not really the case. There are database systems that can handle large scale and complex queries. Allthough usually at the price of providing reduced consistency guarantees.

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#96
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hide :27017 behind a firewall with only your app's DB access layer talking to it? Because if you can do without it, why bother? Developing an access layer costs time and money. If you can leverage the DB features to do what you need, you can make you stack simpler and more maintainable.

It does not take that much time or effort to set up useful subnet/vpc security in AWS. Put the database in your VPC, say only your application vpc can talk to it. Done. Reasonably good security practices are not that much effort, and really it's a case for respecting your users for the most part. The security trust game is starting to blow up. Yahoo just lost $250million dollars to it.

I think y0ghur7_xxx was talking about a usecase where you want to talk to the backend datastore from an application running outside of your datacenter in an untrusted environment (like an iOS/Android app, or a JS web frontend).

In this case, one can make the argument that a custom proxy layer, running in your DC (that proxies between the database and your actual frontend app) should not be necessary if the database offers sufficient per-connection ACLs and is secure.

That's a big if though.

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just rolled out a feature on DynamoDB and when monitoring it, I look at one yeah. Provisioned capacity vs consumed capacity. That's all I have to care about. No CPU, RAM, disk space metrics. Usage can increase 4x and performance is flat. It's great. The application is less flexible and required making a lot of decisions up front, but operationally it's fantastic.

For my application I have found it is more complex about provisioned vs consumed capacity. I get throttling all the time when consumed capacity is a third of provisioned capacity. You also need to care about how DDB does its underlying partitioning. It would be nice to turn the knobs and be able to trust you will get X reads/sec and Y writes/sec, but that is only true per node! Unfortunately, DDB gives you zero infor…

I just ping support when I want to know partitions. They also told me a little trick. If you create a kinesis stream for your table, the number of shards in the stream is the number of partitions.

But you're right part of design for DDB is picking a proper partition key so you don't end up with hot shards.

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#98
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has a SaaS operator stolen data hosted on their service?

Not agreeing with thread OP here, but I would certainly differentiate between "stealing" and "exploiting" (not in a security exploit sense). User data certainly gets exploited on _some_ SaaSs that would otherwise be unexploitable on your own stack. I'm not saying this necessarily applies to compute engines or storage as a service or whatever, but something like gmail (SaaS) where your data is used to target ads at yo…

That is exactly my point. I never use the word steal either as it would imply loss for the original owner. My point was directed to the privacy concern together with the impossibility of knowing what happens when the vendor manages the data, and also for the second hand clients (in government solutions for example).

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#99
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What sort of database is effectively useless for querying? Cassandra, Riak, Voldemort, HBase, Bigtable, Azure Table Storage, and many other implementations of wide column stores have similarly limited querying. I'm also not sure what you mean by the limiting scaling model. I can go from 0 to 160k reads/second by turning a knob, and 160k is only the default limit (you can request higher limits). It is not a document…

The price for that 160k is horrifying though, esp. if the requirement is bursty rather than continuous.

Ignoring reserved prices, it is $10.40/hr (these are eventually consistent reads, so half the cost of consistent ones). That puts it roughly on par with an RDS postgres r3.8xlarge instance with 10k provisioned IOPS.

Sure, you likely have more than one table on RDS, so that cost is amortized, but when you get to the scale where you need 160k reads/s, you aren't going to have much more than that one dataset in a single instance.

Re: Dear MongoDB users, we welcome you in Azure DocumentDB

#100
post #86

One of the best things about AWS is the "Jeff Barr style" posts describing every service they release. I find them much easier to consume than a blog post like this.

Well, this post was a marketing post, not a product release. Product release posts in Azure are much more informative for a dev that this post.

> Product release posts in Azure are much more informative for a dev [than] this post.

Who is this for then?

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