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On Loneliness

krishnamurti-teachings.info

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Re: On Loneliness

#91

Post by tech_browser »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #84
tech_browser wrote: post #43

Krishnamurti's teachings are based on scriptures such as Upanishads and Gita. He was averse to the notion of having a Guru (or teacher) because the teachers he had seen in his time were very steeped in orthodoxy, despite their learning. He was also against quoting verses from scriptures because he wanted to break away from the traditional teacher-student model. His teachings are appealing to many people who do not ha…

>"There are supplementary texts that also discuss the approaches to attain it." The more interesting question is, why are you trying to attain it? What is it that makes people seek enlightenment?

The answer is simple. A human's life remains unfulfilled regardless of his material gains such as wealth and pleasures. The fear of oldage, death and disease looms large and so does the uncertainty of the future. If one were to examine the world objectively, one would find that whatever I've mentioned above is seen aplenty.

The entirety of a human's life is based on the notion I-am-the-body-and-the-mind. If one were to discover one's true nature and shed these limitations, eternal happiness and peace follow. The path to learning this is fraught with difficulties. The biggest obstacle is to learn things differently from what we already know. A cursory reading of books isn't sufficient. This is where the Upanishads and Gita stand out in comparison to other texts on philosophy. Not only do they describe in great detail the true nature of the Self, but also prescribe many practices on reaching the goal.

There's every reason to pursue Self-realization or enlightenment as the only worthy goal of life. Such a goal never comes in one's way of being employed, raising a family etc.

Re: On Loneliness

#92

Post by mkagenius »

dean wrote: post #63
antisocial wrote: post #37

The following is a gem - this has been my guiding star for more than a decade. The self hides in many ways, under every stone, the self can hide in compassion, going to India and looking after poor people, because the self is attached to some idea, faith, conclusion, belief, which makes me compassionate because I love Jesus or Krishna, and I go up to heaven. The self has many masks, the mask of meditation, the mask o…

So...everything you do, no matter how selfless, is actually selfish if you look closely enough?

That could not be true.

When a poor is helped by a man and gets education and somehow he becomes rich, he also wants to help poor people because of gratitude not because he wants to feel better about himself. Its a selfless act not selfish.

Re: On Loneliness

#93

Post by DesiLurker »

fsiefken wrote: post #90
rglover wrote: post #4

Awesome to see Krishnamurti on HN. If anyone is interested, his book _Freedom from the Known_ is highly recommended: https://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Known-Jiddu-Krishnamurti/dp/0... .

Yes, it's great, I read most of his books when I was a teenager.

yes, likewise! stopped reading after a few years for common reasons. its been ages so a good reminder, thanks OP.

Re: On Loneliness

#94

Post by [deleted] »

ci5er wrote: post #87
dean wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...everything you do, no matter how selfless, is actually selfish if you look closely enough?

How could it be otherwise? First, your self's subjective view of the world, is of course centered at/on/from the self. It's the origin of your coordinate system. (Note that the way I am using "(your)self", here is different from the way that J Krishnamurti uses "the self" in his writing) Secondly, if you use something like chaining whys for root-cause analysis (like in the Toyota TPS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_…

[deleted]

Re: On Loneliness

#95

Post by armitron »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #84
tech_browser wrote: post #43

Krishnamurti's teachings are based on scriptures such as Upanishads and Gita. He was averse to the notion of having a Guru (or teacher) because the teachers he had seen in his time were very steeped in orthodoxy, despite their learning. He was also against quoting verses from scriptures because he wanted to break away from the traditional teacher-student model. His teachings are appealing to many people who do not ha…

>"There are supplementary texts that also discuss the approaches to attain it." The more interesting question is, why are you trying to attain it? What is it that makes people seek enlightenment?

The initial impetus is not really important. It may have been something as trivial as a book, or a friend, or somebody on TV. People start all sorts of pursuits for all sorts of silly reasons, and usually end up abandoning them for the next-best-thing to come along. Promises of a better life ("the end of suffering!") are tempting to the unfortunate and downtrodden.

A better question to ask is what _keeps_ people dedicated to this quest? And of course I mean the ones who end up fulfilling it or getting close.

Once you see you can't unsee. Once these practices (that are numerous and not constrained to the East) are followed, things happen. You catch glimpses of the absolute. Mystical experiences and synchronicities become common. The intuitive aspect of yourself comes to the foreground and it's the one that drives this process. One gets all the validation one needs, not from teachers or gurus, but by direct experiential knowledge.

Once on that path, it's hard for someone to turn back. He'd have to delude himself by repeating lies often enough that he'd come to believe them (what are beliefs but thoughts you keep having?).

Re: On Loneliness

#96

Post by JayHost »

dean wrote: post #63
antisocial wrote: post #37

The following is a gem - this has been my guiding star for more than a decade. The self hides in many ways, under every stone, the self can hide in compassion, going to India and looking after poor people, because the self is attached to some idea, faith, conclusion, belief, which makes me compassionate because I love Jesus or Krishna, and I go up to heaven. The self has many masks, the mask of meditation, the mask o…

So...everything you do, no matter how selfless, is actually selfish if you look closely enough?

Enlightened self interest.

The idea that if we help each other when we are in a position to. (Low cost for us. High cost for other).

Also don't cost others suffering.

How you look at it. Are we being selfish or selfless is up to your personal preference of optimism / skepticism. It doesn't really matter.

Ideally if you believe in a type of consciousness rebirth - Likely not taking anything from past life but as we were never dead our consciousness probably* mutates to being a different person.(Do you really think you "Are" the person you were at birth?) -

Then you will want to have enlightened self interest. Personally I believe causing others suffering (Eating animals ect) is a kind of cannibalism / self inflicting harm.

Why is it that we think of ourselves as OTHER?

Survival is at our core but otherwise it is foolish not to work together.

I'm afraid society is moving towards a kind of semen race to the top. Mindless acquisition of material goods to satisfy the ego. We can do better.

Re: On Loneliness

#97

Post by DesiLurker »

tech_browser wrote: post #79
pramalin wrote: post #71

I have read many of his books and listened to his video talks with his followers while I was in Chennai. The "Commentaries on Living" series are easy to read and my favorites. http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/commentaries-on-living-... His teachings are just the opposite of Gita (and other Hindu scriptures), which prescribes caste based society as the act of God. I moved on fr…

Gita doesn't say that God created the caste system. The four "varnas" are loosely translated as "castes" but that is not quite so. A varna is defined by an individual's occupation. Those who teach are brahmanas, those engaged in ruling the kingdom and protecting people are kshatriyas, those involved in business are vaishyas and those performing jobs like construction, farming etc. are shudras. It is unfortunate that…

> There is no parallel to the teachings of Gita..

Well there is Ashtavakra Gita, personally I liked the asthavakra more as its context is more refined.

Re: On Loneliness

#99

Post by fusiongyro »

dean wrote: post #63
antisocial wrote: post #37

The following is a gem - this has been my guiding star for more than a decade. The self hides in many ways, under every stone, the self can hide in compassion, going to India and looking after poor people, because the self is attached to some idea, faith, conclusion, belief, which makes me compassionate because I love Jesus or Krishna, and I go up to heaven. The self has many masks, the mask of meditation, the mask o…

So...everything you do, no matter how selfless, is actually selfish if you look closely enough?

He says "can"... so I think it's open to interpretation.

I think if you deplete the term like that, it becomes meaningless, but the difference in scale between "I'm helping these people to glorify my name" and "I'm helping myself directly" is significant enough that the term still has meaning. We have a Newtonian scale concept of selfishness that works even if we don't have a quantum scale concept that works.

Re: On Loneliness

#100

Post by Tactic »

dean wrote: post #63
antisocial wrote: post #37

The following is a gem - this has been my guiding star for more than a decade. The self hides in many ways, under every stone, the self can hide in compassion, going to India and looking after poor people, because the self is attached to some idea, faith, conclusion, belief, which makes me compassionate because I love Jesus or Krishna, and I go up to heaven. The self has many masks, the mask of meditation, the mask o…

So...everything you do, no matter how selfless, is actually selfish if you look closely enough?

In part. Life is gray, not black and white. There is certainly a grain of self interest because you will feel good having done it. But that doesn't make the act selfish.
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