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How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

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Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#91

Post by dorfsmay »

snrplfth wrote: post #28
dorfsmay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why…

It's not as commonly done because it's considerably more expensive to build triple platforms, and the bends required to make it work slow the train down and cause wear. It's good for high-capacity stations though.

So it should be in every tube/metro/LRT station of every major metropolitan!

I get that it's more expensive, but then train spend a lot less time in stations for people to load/unload.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#92

Post by jogjayr »

dorfsmay wrote: post #21
mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why…

> Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why?".

Cost reasons. Wherever you adopt this, you need two platforms to serve a train instead of one. Not saying it doesn't make sense to do, just that someone probably sat down and did a cost/benefit calculation.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#93

Post by jogjayr »

jrnichols wrote: post #82
capnrefsmmat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... It was first introduced in the 70s in the US in response to high oil prices, and only after road safety tests apparently demonstrated its safety. But since then there's been a fair amount of research indicating it increases accidents and pedestrian fatalities, amounting to somewhere under 100…

And now, turning right on a red light is just a cash cow for the slimy red light camera companies. Some areas report that upwards of 95% of the tickets issued by red light cameras were for not stopping for 6 seconds before turning right on a red light. ("In a two-month period in 2010 in South San Francisco, 98 percent of the 672 red-light violations recorded at El Camino Real and Westborough Boulevard were for right…

I thought California DMV rules only said you had to treat a red-light right like a stop sign. Make a complete stop then move. I don't recall reading anything about 6 seconds and the article doesn't mention that either.

NB: you should always make a complete stop when turning right on red (even if state regs don't require it). And slow down a LOT when turning right in general. There's always a risk of hitting a pedestrian or bicyclist coming up from behind you.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#94

Post by michalskop »

mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

It is common in Germany," too.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#95

Post by lorenzhs »

DerekL wrote: post #87
lorenzhs wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not TSP. In TSP, you have a graph and want to visit every node exactly once . Here you have a (road) graph and want to visit some set of nodes (the delivery addresses) at least once (it's okay to drive past a house where you dropped off a parcel earlier if that somehow makes the journey shorter). Also, consumer satnav systems don't support this kind of query. You can't plug in a list of dozens of destinations an…

It reduces to a special case called the metric TSP. If going through node C is shorter than going from A to B directly, then just replace the A-to-B distance with the length of A-to-C-to-B. It's just as hard to solve as regular TSP, but easier to approximate.

Well yeah it's clearly still NP-complete. But the TSP (or variant thereof) isn't related to the routing engine at all, as the routing engine only defines the edge weights. They're fairly orthogonal problems. Logistics software needs to solve both, but consumer satnav doesn't.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#96

Post by BrailleHunting »

mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

ToR was not allowed in all states until the late 70's, especially back East. It's not like pedestrians have enough dangers to worry about.

Popular expedience != sensible policies.

Curiously also, only California allows motorcycle lane-splitting.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#97

Post by BrailleHunting »

capnrefsmmat wrote: post #66
dorfsmay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why…

> Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... It was first introduced in the 70s in the US in response to high oil prices, and only after road safety tests apparently demonstrated its safety. But since then there's been a fair amount of research indicating it increases accidents and pedestrian fatalities, amounting to somewhere under 100…

If modern fuel-injected cars had automagic engine running management a-la hybrids, mucho idling gas could be saved. Modern engines apparently can save gas by shutting off if expected to stop for any more than 10 seconds.

http://www.aarp.org/money/budgeting-saving/info-05-2009/ask_...

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#98

Post by hobarrera »

dorfsmay wrote: post #21
mstade wrote: post #8

> In the US, and other countries where you drive on the right side of the road, right turns are free, but for a left turn you need to wait for a green light. I don't know of any other country than the US where turning right on red is allowed, unless there's specific signage or additional traffic lights to allow it. Indeed, the turn-on-red rule in the US seems to work inverse to how I've seen it elsewhere – i.e. it's…

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why…

I guess the train thing isn't done everywhere because it basically requires that you rebuild every single train station for it to work (plus, you have to re-do all the railing to have space for an additional platform in between).

I do agree that new stations should do this.

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#99

Post by crottypeter »

theonething wrote: post #75
dorfsmay wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning right on red is one of those idea that once you've been exposed to it you wonder why isn't everybody adopting it... A similar idea is the train system in Munich where they built their platforms such that they can open doors on both sides, making one side of the train the exit, and the other side the entrance. Ever since I saw that, every single time I wait for people getting off a crowded train, I wonder "Why…

This is OT but do others have this experience? You're a pedestrian at an intersection and patiently waiting for the crosswalk signal to flash walk because you want to be safe and not jaywalk. As soon as it flashes walk, a "right turner" comes zooming in and proceeds to take their right. Either they abruptly stop when they finally notice me or they don't and just roll on through and I have to jump back on the sidewalk…

I have only been to the USA once and I noticed this. It didn't help that I was in Florida in the late summer (very hot) so none of the locals expected there to be pedestrians!

Re: How UPS trucks saved millions of dollars by eliminating left turns

#100

Post by jrnichols »

snrplfth wrote: post #86
ksenzee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cameras are sold as a service, so the companies only make money if there are enough tickets for the municipality to justify the expense.

Sure, but the vast majority of the funds from tickets go to the city - that's who it's really a "cash cow" for. And the municipalities are the ones actually making the rules that govern the tickets themselves. Why "slimy companies", and not "slimy City Halls"?

Look up "redflex bribery" and you'll see why.

But yes, city hall is slimy as well. Citizens do not get any say in the matter. Citizens do not get to vote to add red light cameras. You just see them going up, and fighting them is a long, hard road. Some cities in Texas have finally banned them, fortunately.

Redflex/etc are definitely profiting plenty off of the devices. No question about that.

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