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First they came for the Iranians

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Re: First they came for the Iranians

#91

Post by matthewbauer »

_m8fo wrote: post #12

I abhor Trump, but something about this statement irks me: > To the Trump regime, I make one request: if you ever decide that it’s the policy of the US government to deport my PhD students, then deport me first. I’m practically begging you: come to my house, arrest me, revoke my citizenship, and tear up the awards I’ve accepted at the White House and the State Department. I’d consider that to be the greatest honor of…

This is the executive's power. There is literally nothing that can be done about it for the next 4 years besides try to change Trump's mind (or pray he does something impeachable).

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#92

Post by spangry »

I think this is the most troubling part of the draft order, given it seems unlikely the Iranian government would be predisposed to co-operating (especially if the 'requested information' is designed to pander to a xenophobic constituency, rather than protect the US from the communists/terrorists/lizard people):

(d) Immediately upon receipt of the report described in subsection (b) of this section regarding the information needed for adjudications, the Secretary of State shall request all foreign governments that do not supply such information to start providing such information regarding their nationals within 60 days of notification.

(e) After the 60-day period described in subsection (d) of this section expires, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall submit to the President a list of countries recommended for inclusion on a Presidential proclamation that would prohibit the entry of foreign nationals (excluding those foreign nationals traveling on diplomatic visas, North Atlantic Treaty Organization visas, and C- 2 visas for travel to the United Nations) from countries that do not provide the information requested pursuant to subsection (d) of this order until compliance occurs.

EDIT: In Section 3

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#93

Post by [deleted] »

corndoge wrote: post #85

"Today, we learned that Trump is suspending the issuance of US visas to people from seven majority-Islamic countries, including Iran (but strangely not Saudi Arabia, the cradle of Wahhabist terrorism)." And yet, from the very source linked in the article-- "Details about the forthcoming executive orders are still unconfirmed. But here’s what we can say with high confidence." If you trust AP, then sure, it's likely th…

[deleted]

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#94

Post by danans »

The strength of this professor's protest comes from that fact that he puts skin in the game via his request to be deported himself before his students are. Self-sacrifice sends a powerful message, and in my recollection, many consequential protests from history have been grounded in it.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#96

Post by coldtea »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #46
salimmadjd wrote: post #9

Trump is ostensibly using the 9/11 play card to justify banning few muslim countries [0]. This is obviously a lie, since most of 911 hijackers were Saudis and his executive order is not banning the Saudis. I'm guessing on the strength of the Saudi lobby in DC [1] AND/OR Trump's potential business conflict in Saudi Arabia [2]. [0] https://www.scribd.com/document/337545704/Draft-Executive-Or... [1] https://en.wikipedia…

It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations. But as long as Saudis are omitted from this regulation, it's pretty ineffective. Then again, how much of "terrorism legislation" is actually preventing terrorism, as opposed to extending the powers of police and p…

>It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations.

Saudis have a looooong history of funding all kinds of terrorist groups across the whole muslim world.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#97

Post by crispinb »

thowfaraway wrote: post #50
crispinb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to know how (precisely) closing visa access to nations that don't send terrorists to the US (Iran) but not to that those that do, but which happen to make scads of $$ for Trump's business pals (Saudi Arabia), makes America safer than your nation. Try suggesting this policy (visas up the wazoo for oil-rich Wahhabis) to your elected reps. It's a useful test: if they go for it, you know they're either thick or…

Because if you read it, it doesn't close access, it demands background information on visa applicants. Saudi Arabia is already compliant.

This is a straightforward business deal. Saudi Arabia is a major arms client. Iraq is just a poor nation that the US smashed and its citizens are to be thrown as red meat to 'patriots'. Iran is irrelevant to the issue, but 'patriots' don't distinguish between varieties of dusky foreigner.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#98

Post by guildwriter »

mars4rp wrote: post #84
pknerd wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think there are any real Shiite terror group. Hezbollah is a banned Shia outfit that is involved in killing in many countries including Syria.

Killing is different than terrorism, US military is involved in killing in many countries as well!

Are you seriously equivocating the US Military which has specific RoEs and people who deliberately target civilians as a means to achieve their goals? That argument does not pass the smell test.

Iran has been sponsoring and supplying if not actively participating in terrorist attacks going back decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quds_Force#Activities

Anyone saying Iran does not participate in terrorism either has not read enough or is willfully blind.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#99

Post by soheil »

This is part of the game that must be played to win against the government of Iran, people of that country have been treated like pawns in a chess game for long, certainly this is not something new. While the outrage is understandable, policy should not be made based on how it makes people feel. Iran is a country that deserves so much more, but it is seized by a ruling elite that does not share its values. I wish people who show so much outrage against Trump would acknowledge the above and in that new light instead show their support for the people of Iran in this unfortunate situation that they find themselves in.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#100

Post by donquichotte »

orbifold wrote: post #55
throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

Try to come to Germany, lots of Iranian expats study and work here. There are a few very good CS programs aswell (TU Munich for example). Most Phd positions come with a salary of ~1700-3400€ a month and there are no significant tuition fees. You might need to do a two year master degree first though, those are usually not funded, but there are no tuition fees either. Courses on the Phd and Masters level are taught in…

Same in Switzerland. Check out ETHZ or EPFL.
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