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U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#91

Post by evgen »

temp246810 wrote: post #86

Question: as an employer what exactly am I supposed to do if when I put a req out for an engineer, >>>>50% of applicants are asian? Is the burden really on me to dig through the remaining applicants for good ones? These laws really sound like people with no skin in the game demanding things for which they don't know all ramifications.

You keep records that show the acceptance rate, you keep records of interviews, etc. You are not hiring at the same level where statistical anomalies such as what Oracle was caught in will show up, so unless you do something egregiously stupid like tell a candidate that you are passing on them because you don't hire people who are then you will be fine.

"The game" is not your insignificant little company, it is the general labor market.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#92

Post by gmarx »

hemantv wrote: post #31
gmarx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or possibly Indians didn't get the diversity memo and are more likely to hire other Indians than the analogous instinct in white managers? It's odd that the suit alleges that white people are discriminated against relative to Indians yet those that are hired are paid more.

More often than not you will find opposite to be true.

Opposite of which?

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#93

Post by gozur88 »

Quanttek wrote: post #39
gozur88 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also not believable. The idea Oracle had a system that paid white guys more because they were white guys isn't credible without more than just salary evidence.

systematically doesn't necessarily mean with a system

That's exactly what it means. Systematic and systemic aren't synonyms.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#94

Post by pslam »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #3

"Oracle was far more likely to hire Asian applicants - particularly Indian people - for product development and technical roles than black, white or Hispanic job seekers." Can the DOL back up this claim with salary data to see if Oracle is abusing the H1-B visa system by purposefully keeping wages low? Most of the time it is just easier to hire Asian/Indian employees because they are readily available (larger proport…

You would think, from your comment, that this case involved immigration and/or the H1-B Visa system. But it doesn't. Immigration isn't mentioned whatsoever in the document.

> Can the DOL back up this claim with salary data to see if Oracle is abusing the H1-B visa system by purposefully keeping wages low?

Readers should note that this is purely your own conjecture. The H1-B visa system is not relevant to this story.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#95

Post by vthallam »

1_2__3 wrote: post #83
vthallam wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them Wow. Why do you think someone on H1B will agree for a lower wage assuming he/she has a good skill set to get into oracle or similar company? Changing to a diff job on H1B involves some paper work which everyone is used to do now. If we are talking about Indian consulting companies getting low wage employees, it might be partiall…

Because some of us live in the real world and see this literally happening every single day?

Every single day? May be you should come out and meet more people, just saying. Again, you might come across certain incidents where this might be true and there are cases, where they are more educated than an average American and get paid more. But to generalize very broadly is something won't help people properly understand the issue.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#96

Post by dannypgh »

vthallam wrote: post #75
titomc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Most of the time it is just easier to hire Asian/Indian employees because they are readily available " - I doubt that. It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them, because their visa status is tied to the employer. The employers have H1B workers on a leash. The process of hiring an H1B worker in short. - Hire an immigration lawyer. - Post an LCA. - Apply petition to USCIS…

> It's "easier" to hire because they "agree" to lower wages and its easier to retain them Wow. Why do you think someone on H1B will agree for a lower wage assuming he/she has a good skill set to get into oracle or similar company? Changing to a diff job on H1B involves some paper work which everyone is used to do now. If we are talking about Indian consulting companies getting low wage employees, it might be partiall…

Changing jobs always carries risk - the new company might not be a good fit, and you may not last there very long perhaps for reasons beyond your control. Likewise, there are many jobs - e.g. early startups - where the risk of the company itself going under may be significant.

People in the country on an H1B lose their lawful status immediately after their employment ends, which means being unemployed for any period of time carries risk of deportation. Most people don't want a change in their work situation to translate into being forced to leave their country of residence.

Between these two points, I'd expect people here on an H1B to have a narrower field of jobs that seem attractive - high-risk startups aren't going to be appealing to most, and to generally be less mobile than those who don't fear deportation if a new position doesn't work out. Because of this decreased mobility, employers can get away with paying less.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#98

Post by valbaca »

mooooooooo wrote: post #60

Is "culture fit" illegal? Let's say that an Indian manager hires more Indians because he feels like they are easier to work with. Now, he doesn't just hire Indians, but he is statistically more likely to do so over a large quantity of hires. Is that against the law?

> Is "culture fit" illegal?

There's an argument to be said that it is a euphemism for discriminatory factors, along the lines of "shared values."

> Is that against the law?

Yes when you take contracts from the federal govt.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#99

Post by ChuckMcM »

Infinitesimus wrote: post #7

> The department also said that during its investigation, which began in 2014, Oracle refused to provide relevant information about its pay practices. That's the part that doesn't help Oracle at all in this. If you really don't have anything to hide/cleanup, why avoid providing useful information for 2+ years? (Granted, 'relevant information' might be loosely defined here) Tangent: I know several employers use the co…

Demanding a release of payroll data is simply a pressure tactic. Disclosing pay practice information is something the company really doesn't want to do, it only marginally helps the plaintiff but the plaintiff can make the case that they need that information for their case. It puts pressure on the company to settle before a judge orders them to hand over the data.

Re: U.S. sues Oracle, alleges salary and hiring discrimination

#100

Post by blazespin »

temp246810 wrote: post #86

Question: as an employer what exactly am I supposed to do if when I put a req out for an engineer, >>>>50% of applicants are asian? Is the burden really on me to dig through the remaining applicants for good ones? These laws really sound like people with no skin in the game demanding things for which they don't know all ramifications.

Well, some companies might be statistically abnormal. If Company O is hiring 75% race and Company G is only hiring 50% race, you have to wonder what's going on.
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