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Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

blog.caranddriver.com

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Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#91

Post by TeMPOraL »

stcredzero wrote: post #53
moron4hire wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Mars' atmosphere is more akin to a vacuum than most industrial vacuum processes.

That's because most industrial vacuum processes happen in the 15 psi context of conditions on Earth. We already know that the Sabatier process will work in Mars like conditions. The chemistry has been around for a century, and demonstration hardware specifically for Mars conditions was built over a decade ago.

Will work != will have enough output to be useful. I'm hopeful, but honestly, I haven't seen any decent estimates. Anyone has a link to such?

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#92

Post by lostboys67 »

ticviking wrote: post #68
tenminuteslater wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would seem to be a classic example of a distinction without a difference.

It has to do with wanting something they can in principal maintain forever without outside help.

Up to a point central compressed air solutions do have H&S issues I recall one of my thermo fluid lecturers saying well if the main pressure vessel failed it would have demolished the building.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#93

Post by TeMPOraL »

redsummer wrote: post #28

A lot of people think the Amish are against technology. In fact, they carefully consider the technology's effect on themselves and their community. Will it really help, or is it just a new thing which will cause unintended consequences? For instance, some Amish groups accepted cars, and their community disappeared - when anyone can drive anywhere the community collapsed. Now there are no Amish who allow cars. The sam…

I don't think so. It's more like - a lot of technologies help you join bigger communities, in particular the Universal Culture[0]. If your community is defined mostly by not being part of universal culture, technology becomes an existential threat to it.

--

[0] - defined as the culture that outcompetes other cultures; often called "Western culture", but it's not really important where it came from. McDonalds, for instance, is part of universal culture, but it wins not because it's from America; it wins because people find it to be actually a pretty good idea.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#94

Post by lostboys67 »

evgen wrote: post #84
ticviking wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to do with wanting something they can in principal maintain forever without outside help.

They make many pressure rated air hoses in those communities? Didn't think so. As previous poster noted, it is all effectively arbitrary window dressing.

If it where the case they should be using belt drive driven by wind/horse power - until fairly recently mech eng techs in the uk where taught how to design belt drive systems

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#95

Post by wiredfool »

gvb wrote: post #57
dripton wrote: post #8

>There was actually an alternator system attempted in the last five years,” he says. “It worked about 60 percent, but it never took off. Generator hubs for bicycles are mature technology at this point. Including capacitors in the taillights so they stay on when the bike is stopped. Buggies could easily adopt them, but I guess it's not worth the bother if batteries mostly work.

Generators or alternators driven off the wheels are not free - the horse is now powering your lights as well as your wagon. The relatively high efficiency of LED lights helps a lot, but your horse still with thank you for using batteries. The article discusses the higher efficiency of steel tires compared to rubber tires and the emphasis on light weight. Tens of Watts of generator load on the horse is probably more t…

If a guy that rides 1200km on a bike in 50 hours prefers a generator vs batteries based on drag vs weight I'd say that the generator + lights is pretty much solved technology.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#96

Post by TeMPOraL »

int_19h wrote: post #82
redsummer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Amish are happier than almost all Americans: http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/03/16/happiness-wealth-a... You want those communities to collapse, because you see no other solutions except more tech, more greed, more 'progress'. That's the hamster wheel you've been given. What other life could there be?

Making people happy is surprisingly easy; all it takes is a couple of electrodes inserted into the brain. So if that's the only bar that you have, the Amish are way overthinking it.

In theory yes; in practice, it's beyond our technological capabilities at the moment. A better alternative would be drugs. And honestly, it's our "universal culture" that's more susceptible to this failure mode.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#97

Post by Clubber »

redsummer wrote: post #47
Clubber wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In fact, technology does not improve the human condition in most cases. It erodes it. I agree with what you said but think this is a little strong of a statement. I guess it depends on what you mean by technology. I'd rather live today than in the 1900s because of medical technology alone. It's like anything. Technology just is. It's what people with free will do with it that can be harmful or helpful. With that sai…

You might think you would prefer to live now rather than 1900, but I would suspect that the word "live" had greater meaning then. Here is Ben Franklin on the appeal of the traditional Native American life: "When an Indian Child has been brought up among us, taught our language and habituated to our Customs, yet if he goes to see his relations and make one Indian Ramble with them, there is no perswading him ever to re…

Thanks for sharing that passage. From what I understand, our Constitution is based heavily on the governance of Indian tribes of the time. I'm not sure how well that scales, since much if it is now gone.

I was referring more to the Polio and TB and Smallpox. I believe estimates are 50-96% dead from European travels to North America. Crazy stuff.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#98

Post by jccalhoun »

tenminuteslater wrote: post #61
drakenot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should see some videos of Amish woodworking shops. They have every tool that a modern woodworking shop would have: table saw, bandsaw, drill press, rotary sanders, etc. Except they are all air powered. They have all been rigged to run off pressurized air lines. The air is produced by a gas generator.

This would seem to be a classic example of a distinction without a difference.

From my experience with the Amish it is all about justifications that don't make any sense. But if it works for them I'm not going to judge them too harshly.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#99

Post by rubidium »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #93
redsummer wrote: post #28

A lot of people think the Amish are against technology. In fact, they carefully consider the technology's effect on themselves and their community. Will it really help, or is it just a new thing which will cause unintended consequences? For instance, some Amish groups accepted cars, and their community disappeared - when anyone can drive anywhere the community collapsed. Now there are no Amish who allow cars. The sam…

I don't think so. It's more like - a lot of technologies help you join bigger communities, in particular the Universal Culture[0]. If your community is defined mostly by not being part of universal culture, technology becomes an existential threat to it. -- [0] - defined as the culture that outcompetes other cultures; often called "Western culture", but it's not really important where it came from. McDonalds, for ins…

Your "universal culture" sounds a lot like corporate consumerism and lacking in real cultural diversity.

Re: Modern Tech inside an Amish Horse-Drawn Buggy

#100

Post by jccalhoun »

teilo wrote: post #21

When I worked for a Wal-Mart in Indiana in the 90s, the Amish would come into the electronics department and buy country music cassettes and battery-powered players. And also, I kid you not, Gameboys.

I grew up near Rush county in Indiana and the Amish there loved Wal-Mart and all the younger ones all wore Reeboks.
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