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Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

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Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#91

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

As an old Opera user I really want to like Vivaldi, but the weird titlebar without title and especially the non-native menubar really turn me off (in a native menubar under Windows, once you click a menu, you can just move your mouse without clicking to navigate the rest of the menus. In Vivaldi's menubar, you can't, making the menus way clunkier to navigate). For this reason, I actually find the experience of Otter Browser (http://www.otter-browser.org/) to be closer to Opera's than that of Vivaldi: even if Otter is more bare-bones in terms of functionality, it really gets the efficient UX feel better. I encourage old Opera fans to check it out as well.

I hope the Vivaldi team fixes these so I can really like it. Some of my previous turnoffs (like lack of "click tab to minimize") were implemented so I'm hopeful... although not too hopeful because this menu implementation has been there for quite long so they don't seem to take the menubar too seriously.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#92

Post by suprfnk »

StevePerkins wrote: post #46

I check in on Vivaldi every few months to see how it's coming along, and there are some things that I like. However, I think they're a bit TOO fixated on Opera as it was 15 years ago. I keep waiting for bookmark sync, which today is a fundamental browser feature rather than a nice-to-have. But the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature fe…

> the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature feature of Opera back in the day.

Really? That's dumb. Why would I want my browser to check my email? That should be another program, or just a webpage. The browser browses the internet.

Perhaps I'm not the audience, as I've always liked the Unix "do one thing and do it well" approach.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#94

Post by webmaven »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #58
StevePerkins wrote: post #46

I check in on Vivaldi every few months to see how it's coming along, and there are some things that I like. However, I think they're a bit TOO fixated on Opera as it was 15 years ago. I keep waiting for bookmark sync, which today is a fundamental browser feature rather than a nice-to-have. But the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature fe…

Almost everyone I know using email for business uses a desktop client - usually Mac Mail, sometimes thunderbird. A new client that isn't quite so neglected would be very welcome.

My circle of Friends and Family contains a few Outlook[0] diehards as well.

I sympathize, as I was an Evolution loyalist for a very long time. It started crashing under the load of multi-GB folders, so I migrated to GMail.

I was considering switching to Thunderbird when they dissolved Mozilla Messaging[1]. Now my G-Suite storage is running up against the free limits, so I will probably be looking at migrating email back to the desktop this year.

[0] No, not Outlook Express (with it's support for NNTP), I mean the version of Outlook that is part of Office.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Messaging

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#95

Post by triage4 »

nhumrich wrote: post #45
matthberg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was blown away by the customizability, I used Firefox with a split tab extension, yet this has native support.

Unfortunately you can't resize the split. I almost never want an exact 50-50 split. One webpage always scales better then the other in split mode.

You could have one site set as a panel and resize.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#96

Post by Fnoord »

suprfnk wrote: post #92
StevePerkins wrote: post #46

I check in on Vivaldi every few months to see how it's coming along, and there are some things that I like. However, I think they're a bit TOO fixated on Opera as it was 15 years ago. I keep waiting for bookmark sync, which today is a fundamental browser feature rather than a nice-to-have. But the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature fe…

> the Vivaldi guys insist on pouring resources into an integrated desktop email client instead, because that was a signature feature of Opera back in the day. Really? That's dumb. Why would I want my browser to check my email? That should be another program, or just a webpage. The browser browses the internet. Perhaps I'm not the audience, as I've always liked the Unix "do one thing and do it well" approach.

> The browser browses the internet.

You mean 'the World Wide Web' [1] since 'the Internet' includes other protocols than HTTP(S) such as SMTP, POP3, and IMAP.

Nowadays, Node is everywhere. Slack, using JavaScript, is replacing IRC. One of the best e-mail clients is Nylas N1 which uses JavaScript under the hood. Hyper is a terminal using JavaScript. Discord is becoming the defacto standard for VoIP gaming, and uses JavaScript under the hood. In a way, the WWW -via JavaScript- is invading the space of the traditional protocols.

You may find that bloat, but all of the above applications provide an excellent user experience. The UIs work very well.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#97

Post by NKCSS »

First time I heard or used Vivaldi; the whole 2-panels in 1 browser chrome side by side looked interesting, but using it, docking/undocking tabs and resizeing the area's just feels very slow, especially when you're used to how snappy Google Chrome feels. Too bad because I want to like this :)

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#98

Post by SyneRyder »

grzm wrote: post #86
SyneRyder wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you run a mailing list on Mailchimp, it provides stats on the email clients that subscribers are using, presumably detected from the User-Agent that HTML email clients send when downloading images. My tiny email list (at indieconference.com) has 8% of my subscribers using Apple Mail, and 75% still use desktop/laptop for checking email. Email Client Marketshare also shows Apple Mail with 7% marketshare as of 1 Janu…

My tiny email list (at indieconference.com) has 8% of my subscribers using Apple Mail, and 75% still use desktop/laptop for checking email. Does this breakdown take into account the OS? Is that 8% of macOS subscribers running Apple Mail, or of all subscribers? I'm unfamiliar with what data you have avialable, so I'm not sure if this is even possible. Thanks for the link to emailclientmarketshare.com. As you noted, Ap…

Oh, I meant 8% of all subscribers use Apple Mail. It isn't 8% of macOS users, but 8% of any device. So the percentage of Mac users with Apple Mail would be higher than 8%.

You could try calculating something similar with the Email Client Marketshare figures: remove all the iPhone / iPad / Android / Windows clients and calculate from what's left. If I do that I estimate 15 - 20% of macOS folks using Apple Mail, with the rest mostly using Gmail.

Re: Vivaldi – A Browser for Our Friends

#100

Post by ankka »

NKCSS wrote: post #97

First time I heard or used Vivaldi; the whole 2-panels in 1 browser chrome side by side looked interesting, but using it, docking/undocking tabs and resizeing the area's just feels very slow, especially when you're used to how snappy Google Chrome feels. Too bad because I want to like this :)

This is a sad problem that has come with developers using Javascript for everything. Development might be faster, but the end product is simply slow even on high-end machines.

Same thing happens with Visual Studio Code, Brackets and Atom when compared to Sublime Text, for instance.

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