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Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

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Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#91

Post by spangry »

agumonkey wrote: post #84
spangry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piano's another good one if you're looking for something more melodic. Although I think drumming is where it's at if you'd find value in the social aspects of music (it's harder to play piano in a band). Now that I think about it, drumming and piano have a couple of things in common, even though they're vastly different instruments. Both require 'synchronising' the left and right sides of your body (and also, presuma…

Any favorite piano player / band / album / theme that tickle your syncopation senses ?

It's hard to go past Chopin's "Fantaisie Impromptu". I quite like Yundi Li's interpretation of the piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvm2ZsRv3C8

And one from my favourite composer, Claude Debussy, the first in his pair of Arabesques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fle2CP8gR0 . The Arabesque is really nice: it starts off synchronised and then transitions to a really beautiful syncopated flowing section.

And although this has nothing to do with syncopation or off-beat rhythms, I highly recommend this video from Valentina Lisitsa (one of the most technically brilliant pianists alive, IMHO) playing a Beethoven Sonata with a GoPro strapped to her chest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0m2RW4m8xE

Although you might want to avoid that last one if you're prone to motion sickness :)

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#92

Post by tormeh »

criddell wrote: post #43
agumonkey wrote: post #3

I found that learning music unlocked pattern comprehensions that were very mathematical. Multiple layers of abstraction (rhythm or note points, derivatives of these two, overlay, non linear transformations, and the equivalent momentum phenomenons). Running is something that trigger creative mind activity for me. And a form of flow. I wouldn't be surprised if other physical activity would do the same: climbing, even b…

How old were you when you learned music? I've been trying to learn to play guitar on and off for 25 years now. It's a huge struggle for me. For a while I'll practice daily, make very little progress, get frustrated and bored, then quit. A year later I start over and no progress is ever made. I've had different teachers and different instruments (I love the gear part of it) and I know what's really needed is grit. I d…

Fellow guitar-quitter here. I get the impression that most people that keep practicing do so because they're in a band. The stuff you practice doing has to actually feel useful to you, I think.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#93

Post by agumonkey »

spangry wrote: post #91
agumonkey wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any favorite piano player / band / album / theme that tickle your syncopation senses ?

It's hard to go past Chopin's "Fantaisie Impromptu". I quite like Yundi Li's interpretation of the piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvm2ZsRv3C8 And one from my favourite composer, Claude Debussy, the first in his pair of Arabesques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fle2CP8gR0 . The Arabesque is really nice: it starts off synchronised and then transitions to a really beautiful syncopated flowing section. And alt…

I didn't felt a lot for Lisitsa interpretation. Debussy Arabesque n°2 has bits that I like a lot, too short though. Chopin's piece is nice for the momentum but .. I'm more in love with the Prelude 20. Do you know other piece of him with similar harmonic brilliance ?

----

Listening to classic music like this is relaxing, I currently listen to things like:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbklUUuhHgs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFaVOruNRck (guitar only, tell me what you think about this piece, which is a cover from metheny in a classical guitar rewrite)

otherwise

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3s3dne0d8Q (this is the piece that made me think I should start listening to classical music more openly. I used to be in jazzfusion, but the piano introduction felt mostly classical in tone and quite beautiful. The rest isn't bad either, strings, bass, guitar... a very nice crescendo)

Talking about off beat syncopation, not sure if that's what you mean, I think of this kind of rhythm (warning not classical music):

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nahPAXPFYPQ

I consider the dude who created this album a genius, his pianistic style is messy, lightweight, with diagonal solos (see next song finale) toying with the bar in all directions.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGh-7RnafpU

I hope you'll enjoy some of this (maybe you already know them)

----

ps: bonus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7Lh64Ibz8

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#94

Post by agumonkey »

edejong wrote: post #89
agumonkey wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cute quote. I started thinking I disagreed but I confused calculus with counting/algebra .. A whole chunk of classical music is "integer" like (algebra). Jazz/Swing adds flips music around syncopation which is a massive change in mental representation. It's the difference between Harryhausen and Star Wars stop motion (or more recently keyframe tweening and Mitsuo Iso odd time animation). Macro vs Micro. And .. it ali…

I understand your reasoning, but it is based on incorrect assumptions. The first assumption you make is that we actually know how pre-18th century music sounded like. We have guesses, some better than others, but we know that we are likely wrong. The second assumption is based on the idea that music somehow improves in complexity and quality. We have many scores that have survived the test of time, but these provide…

Good point about loss of information from historical, technological and cultural restriction. My reasonning is based on what people today call music theory in most schools and below a certain level. Surely Berklee talks about all kind of stuff.

I don't think all was lost, things that weren't writeable could be passed orally as virtuoso techniques that weren't deemed useful to be written for the average player anyway. See how Spanish guitar technique has survived time.

My attempt at understanding jazz is that it revolves rhytmically around swing. And that core swing can be described through a tinier and principled abstraction rather than a crude ternary feel mark left for the student to figure out. Also from trying to make sense of jazz music without the traditional formalisms (I barely know two modes, and never learned that many progressions). There are some tiny tiny notes in Herbie Hancock playing that shifts the whole world. I'm sure "the" truth lies in there. see the finale solo https://www.youpak.com/watch?v=95TAfOWJKwg

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#95

Post by spangry »

agumonkey wrote: post #93
spangry wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to go past Chopin's "Fantaisie Impromptu". I quite like Yundi Li's interpretation of the piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvm2ZsRv3C8 And one from my favourite composer, Claude Debussy, the first in his pair of Arabesques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fle2CP8gR0 . The Arabesque is really nice: it starts off synchronised and then transitions to a really beautiful syncopated flowing section. And alt…

I didn't felt a lot for Lisitsa interpretation. Debussy Arabesque n°2 has bits that I like a lot, too short though. Chopin's piece is nice for the momentum but .. I'm more in love with the Prelude 20. Do you know other piece of him with similar harmonic brilliance ? ---- Listening to classic music like this is relaxing, I currently listen to things like: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbklUUuhHgs - https://www.you…

Hey thanks for the links. I'll probably take a little while to go through these; it often takes me a few listens to 'get' a piece of music (regardless of genre). I don't know if anyone else gets this, but I find after listening to an album a few times through, pieces that I initially didn't like sometimes end up being my favourites.

I get what you're saying about Lisitsa; if I has to make one criticism, it's that she can play a little 'mechanically' at times. This is often the case with talented 'technicians'. Well, with the exception of Horowitz, who was some sort of freakishly talented mutant, with his crazy 'flat-fingered' technique and heavily modified Steinway (that most people find unplayable). Although, given the level of her technical talent, Lisitsa is not so bad in this regard. If you really want to see a concert pianist with no feel for what he is playing, take a look at some of Lang Lang's performances. I suppose a lot of people must like him, given his success, but he just isn't for me.

As for nice harmonies, I'm a little unsure what to recommend. I only did a little formal study of music theory (mostly forgotten), so am not the greatest theorist... Maybe try Liszt's third 'Liebestraum' (which has an interesting, and bloody difficult, 'three hands' technique where both hands contribute to a 'middle melody' in sections of the piece): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpOtuoHL45Y . Also, a famous Chopin Ballade that you've probably heard before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8p0VcTbuA

As for the term 'syncopation', I think it has fairly broad meaning. The kind I was referring to is when the timing/tempo of one clef doesn't neatly divide into (or 'match up' with) the other. For example, see page 2, line 3 here: http://www.mediaphorie.com/pdf/PSU_Demo_En.pdf

And first page, line 2 here: https://www.ibiblio.org/mutopia/ftp/ChopinFF/O66/chopin_fant...

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#96

Post by agumonkey »

spangry wrote: post #95
agumonkey wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't felt a lot for Lisitsa interpretation. Debussy Arabesque n°2 has bits that I like a lot, too short though. Chopin's piece is nice for the momentum but .. I'm more in love with the Prelude 20. Do you know other piece of him with similar harmonic brilliance ? ---- Listening to classic music like this is relaxing, I currently listen to things like: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbklUUuhHgs - https://www.you…

Hey thanks for the links. I'll probably take a little while to go through these; it often takes me a few listens to 'get' a piece of music (regardless of genre). I don't know if anyone else gets this, but I find after listening to an album a few times through, pieces that I initially didn't like sometimes end up being my favourites. I get what you're saying about Lisitsa; if I has to make one criticism, it's that she…

It's not rare to end up loving the pieces that don't resonnate with you. It's the one that create a new niche in your mind.

Talking about virtuoso, I was surprised by Joey Alexander, he does have a musical feel and is not just a technician child prodigy. Pretty cool to see.

Thanks for the links too.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#97

Post by phodo »

rrauenza wrote: post #46
agumonkey wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, the day I started to isolate overlapping melodies was a huge gift. Makes me happy to read your story. After formal training, and years of wondering what the hell chord progression were about.. the day I could parse harmony in my head and focus on one line in relation to the others, everything became clear. although I cannot measure what I feel in precise way (I couldn't name the intervals) I can improvise counte…

Is there anything in particular either of you did to learn this? I've been playing saxophone for decades and still can't really parse harmonies that I hear. I sometimes wonder if it's because I play a single monophonic instrument rather than a polyphonic instrument.

As a sometimes runner and jazz sax player (intermediate), I can completely relate to this thread on both topics. One thing I noticed when studying a new improv technique or parsing out chords and applying great mental strain, a few days / weeks after said activity, I will dream that I am playing my sax and actually do a pretty nice little improv in my dreams. When I wake up, I can barely remember the melody. This has happened about a half dozen times. My reasoning is that in my waking moments I over think things, e.g. What is the right line to play over this or that progression. I guess in my sleep, I am released from all these heuristics and am able to tap into a deeper, freer layer. A jazz teacher once told me to just forget about the theory - not overthink stuff - and just play what I feel. It sounds cliched but it's good advice. (He was a mathematician by training so could relate ).

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#98

Post by dredmorbius »

contingencies wrote: post #36
dredmorbius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mediaeval university curriculum was based on two foundations, the trivium and the quadrivium (collectively "the seven liberal arts"). The trivium: grammar, logic, and rhetoric. Or in computing terms: input (parsing), processing, and output. The quadrivium: maths, geometry, music, and astronomy. "What's the connection?" you ask? Numbers. Numbers in space. Numbers in time. Numbers in space and time.

Interesting. After some reading, apparently this interpretation of the trivium is standard, though this interpretation of the quadrivium not entirely. My immediate thought was that of course there would be crossover. For example, rhetoric includes elements of time (tempo/rhythm are poetic). Maths, geometry and astronomy are largely about processing, and so on. More interestingly, they considered the whole lot prepara…

What other definitions for the quadrivium are you finding? The set and description I've cited have seemed fairly standard, though I'm not an expert in the area.

I'm finding the content and descriptions mostly interesting in a retrospective sense -- I'm not ent

advocating that the mediaeval curriculum be implemented in its original form today. At the same time, I find the notion of input, processing, and output to be quite useful, and one which might be considered as part of a modern curriculum.

For the maths progression of the quadrivium, there are a few other possible clusters or progressions. We've made some advances in maths as well.

I see a general structure of: quantitative notations and operations (arithmetic), solving for unknowns (algebra), geometry and trigenometry, integrals and derivatives, matrixes, differential equations and approximations (FFT). There's also logic (informal, formal, programmatic), programming, and artificial intelligence / machine learning. Genetic engineering seems also to fall somewhere on this axis.

Collectively, all of this falls under inforamtion acquisition, processing, storage, and transmission.

Re: Runners’ brains may be more connected, research shows

#99

Post by agumonkey »

phodo wrote: post #97
rrauenza wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything in particular either of you did to learn this? I've been playing saxophone for decades and still can't really parse harmonies that I hear. I sometimes wonder if it's because I play a single monophonic instrument rather than a polyphonic instrument.

As a sometimes runner and jazz sax player (intermediate), I can completely relate to this thread on both topics. One thing I noticed when studying a new improv technique or parsing out chords and applying great mental strain, a few days / weeks after said activity, I will dream that I am playing my sax and actually do a pretty nice little improv in my dreams. When I wake up, I can barely remember the melody. This has…

This is why I didn't invest in theory, I wanted to feel the music. It happens once in a while and I can surf the music's surface for a minute totally free. It's a bit crazy but in these moments the brain really sees things like smooth hills and if you're tuned in, you're like a ball rolling in these, picking a bit where you'd like to roll next, or maybe bounce because why not.

There's a thing you get after a while on drums, the internal clock becomes stable. You can play whatever, if you feel you don't make sense, a part of your mind is still ready to catch the groove as if you never played outside the click.

In Harmony there's a similar sensation, you don't care about the note, any note on any chord will taste something, but you learn to swerve back into the harmonic movement if you think you're turning into noise, or if you want to express something sweeter to the ear, depending on your emotions and the overall flow.

I believe to learn that, the best way is to play off. Off time, off key. And feel what it is to lock in again. Then play on that sensation.

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