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Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

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Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#91

Post by adrianN »

artlogic wrote: post #65
ams6110 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem human drivers have in winter weather is simply driving too fast. Self-driving cars won't get impatient and will presumably never exceed safe speeds for given conditions.

Having lived nearly my whole life in Michigan, I think this grossly oversimplifies the problem. I'm sure my Canadian friends will agree. This assumes there's some clear algorithm for determining a "safe" speed. There's not. Even in highway driving you can lose traction in an instant if you hit a patch of black ice. Autonomous vehicles will need to be able to recover from a complete loss of traction safely. This isn't…

I think such acts of control are one of the things where computers are naturally better than humans. We have a lot of experience in automatically controlling dynamic systems. Winter conditions are more of a problem because they might interfere with the sensors (e.g. radars and snow don't play together very well).

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#92

Post by autotune »

joosters wrote: post #44
autotune wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is you have much more privacy in an Uber vehicle. Someone about to make a mess in the subway might be more inclined to wait until they get off vs a private vehicle with just them in there.

Privacy? Everything you say & do in the cars will be recorded, and Uber isn't the kind of company that would treat that data well.

The illusion of privacy. Barrier to entry for using Uber is not exactly high and when you're intoxicated you may forget or simply not care.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#93

Post by hackalaugh »

hackerboos wrote: post #73
vivekd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, Uber and Lyft CEOs both said they envision a future where we don't own cars and just call self driving taxi services via app when we need them. They both envision this happening in less than a decade. This seems to be coming true, millennials have the lowest rate of car ownership and it seems to be the best explanation for why both companies are willing to bleed money to expand market-share as quickly a possible…

It'd be nice if we could get to the point where my self-driving car is earning cash as a taxi whilst I'm doing my 9-5.

Seems potentially unlikely that a consumer could own and (auto-)operate a self-driving vehicle at a rate competitive with Uber & Lyft (or whatever corp.), who could purchase in bulk and have their cars operate for significantly less.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#94

Post by artlogic »

rconti wrote: post #74
artlogic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived nearly my whole life in Michigan, I think this grossly oversimplifies the problem. I'm sure my Canadian friends will agree. This assumes there's some clear algorithm for determining a "safe" speed. There's not. Even in highway driving you can lose traction in an instant if you hit a patch of black ice. Autonomous vehicles will need to be able to recover from a complete loss of traction safely. This isn't…

You may be correct that relatively little work is being done in this area, however I think you overstate the difficulty. Winter driving is really no different from any other kind of driving in which the driver exceeds the limits of the vehicle's available traction. The methods of recovery are mostly well-known; the problem is more often the driver's inability to implement them in a timely manner. Constant input from…

> Winter driving is really no different from any other kind of driving in which the driver exceeds the limits of the vehicle's available traction.

I actually agree with this statement. The problem is that, in good conditions, low traction events are rare, and often caused by catastrophic conditions. In winter driving it's practically the norm, once you leave well traveled roadways.

I think AI could be trained to drive a car that only occasionally has full traction, and probably more effectively than a person given enough time. But again - it's like you said - someone needs to be addressing this case directly.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#95

Post by samfisher83 »

vivekd wrote: post #69
aedron wrote: post #34

Uber's product is the company's stock. All of their "AI" and "self-driving" stunts so far have been transparent hype fuel that anyone with the slightest domain knowledge knows have no practical significance. Their PR department are, as can be expected, top notch though. I especially like how they put a populist spin on their announcements, like the beer delivery (yay, beer!) and now picking up passengers with their p…

Nah, Uber and Lyft CEOs both said they envision a future where we don't own cars and just call self driving taxi services via app when we need them. They both envision this happening in less than a decade. This seems to be coming true, millennials have the lowest rate of car ownership and it seems to be the best explanation for why both companies are willing to bleed money to expand market-share as quickly a possible…

Why not use trains or buses. Thousands of cars compared to a single train seems inefficient.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#96

Post by fullshark »

samfisher83 wrote: post #95
vivekd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, Uber and Lyft CEOs both said they envision a future where we don't own cars and just call self driving taxi services via app when we need them. They both envision this happening in less than a decade. This seems to be coming true, millennials have the lowest rate of car ownership and it seems to be the best explanation for why both companies are willing to bleed money to expand market-share as quickly a possible…

Why not use trains or buses. Thousands of cars compared to a single train seems inefficient.

They require preplanning, adherence to scheduling, take more time, and may not take you exactly where you want to go.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#97

Post by nathan_f77 »

notheguyouthink wrote: post #35
joosters wrote: post #29

I wonder if everything you say & do is recorded in these? The car has all those cameras covering the outside of the vehicle, it would be little effort to add another inside, and I doubt Uber will be able to resist. Uber could claim they need to record passengers in order to spot damage or dirtying of the cab. (Otherwise passengers could blame any damage on the previous occupant.)

> The car has all those cameras covering the outside of the vehicle This raises a good point i never thought about. If in some day all of our cars have self driving or self aware features, then that means nearly all locations in the city are within reach of cameras and possibly microphones. I'm not "a paranoid" about privacy stuff, but that is quite impressive nonetheless. The future is going to be quite interesting.…

The UK already has millions of CCTV cameras set up like this.

You might find this article interesting: http://www.wired.co.uk/article/one-nation-under-cctv

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#98

Post by hackalaugh »

thegranderson wrote: post #90
waterphone wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in urban environments, maybe. Never going to be the case for the majority of areas.

Well... depending on who you source, the majority of people already live in urban environments. In the US, the most recent figure from the census is 62.7%, which is more narrowly defined at % of population living in cities[1]. If you count "urban areas" which includes towns and villages, it is north of 80% [2] Worldwide, we are at ~54% living in cities. [3] This trend seems to be continuing globally as well [4], so p…

Seems possible that as automation of delivery services becomes more widespread (e.g. drone delivery), and as both remote work opportunities and entertainment technologies increase, there will be less of an incentive, or at least less of a financial/work-related incentive to for populations to accrete around centralized urban developments. So the growth of urban vs. rural or suburban population rates may potentially slow in a few decades. Maybe, but probably not, idk.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#99

Post by artlogic »

ams6110 wrote: post #75
artlogic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived nearly my whole life in Michigan, I think this grossly oversimplifies the problem. I'm sure my Canadian friends will agree. This assumes there's some clear algorithm for determining a "safe" speed. There's not. Even in highway driving you can lose traction in an instant if you hit a patch of black ice. Autonomous vehicles will need to be able to recover from a complete loss of traction safely. This isn't…

I don't disagree. But without exception every winter slide-off I've witnessed first hand has been caused by excessive speed. You're driving along on a snow-covered interstate highway, someone in a BMW or 4x4 flies past you because "I have all wheel drive" starts to fishtail, overcorrects, spins out, and ends up backwards and stuck on the median.

Respectfully, I think this amounts to bias more than anything. It's a lot easier to believe that the slide-offs are caused by bad driving - and most probably are. But some are unavoidable.

Re: Uber’s self-driving cars start picking up passengers in San Francisco

#100

Post by kerryfalk »

lojack wrote: post #83
ams6110 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem human drivers have in winter weather is simply driving too fast. Self-driving cars won't get impatient and will presumably never exceed safe speeds for given conditions.

Just to provide a counter point, in my experience, the biggest problem I face in winter weather is other drivers. I know when I hit a patch of black ice and have difficulty stopping that the oversized van behind me is going to have more difficulty stopping, and I have the instinct to quickly turn instead of waiting on the red light. I also know that cars have difficulty stopping on a steep hill and I may wait before…

Agreed. I don't think the problem in winter driving is the speed. It's anticipating what the hazards are and how to avoid them.

You - and the other drivers on the road - have less control at all speeds and are always much closer to the limit of traction. Driving on winter roads is a lot like racing a car on a track with other drivers - everyone is near the limit of traction and a hazard can present itself very quickly. Having the right reaction at the right time helps, but planning ahead is more important. Daily driving in summer months is benign in comparison.

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