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Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

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Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#91

Post by hkt »

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that the myth of our moral superiority has never been anything else.

Great photography, though.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#92

Post by nabla9 »

coldpie wrote: post #54
katkattac wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a quote from General John L. DeWitt, head of the U.S. Army’s Western Defense Command. He's basically the guy that convinced the president that this was a good idea. Why we put people like him in power (instead of prison), I'll never understand.

The next United States Secretary of Defense: "There are some people who think you have to hate them in order to shoot them. I don’t think you do. It’s just business." "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it’s quite fun to fight them,…

I think the first quote was good and reasonable view.

Rest were just tough talk.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#93

Post by superbaconman »

turar wrote: post #50
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between detention and deportation of illegal immigrants and detention of legal immigrants and American citizens.

Because former are inhuman and latter a human? The most jarring part, of course, is that most of "illegal aliens" are rural Mexicans of Native American heritage, being detained in states like Arizona, Texas, and New Mexico, on land belonging to their country not too long ago, and to their ancestors for centuries.

I'm not sure that's a completely accurate view.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo

Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to within Mexico's new boundaries or receiving American citizenship with full civil rights. Over 90% chose to become U.S. citizens.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#94

Post by mxfh »

hornbaker wrote: post #20

Most of them were Japanese Americans, born in America. One wonders why German Americans weren't given similar treatment.

Func fact: it's Americans of German and Italian descent that brought you Trump.

It's the Germans that were either eager or pressured into adopting that ego-fragile "American"-only identity. Even Trump's father said he was of Swedish decent if asked as a businessman.

It's not like all axis powers heritage lines get a free shot on trying out fascism.

http://www.electionanalysis2016.us/us-election-analysis-2016...

https://www.buzzfeed.com/peteraldhous/trump-and-the-white-vo...

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#95

Post by [deleted] »

hkt wrote: post #91

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that t…

[deleted]

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#96

Post by AnimalMuppet »

hkt wrote: post #91

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that t…

> It is sad to think that the myth of our moral superiority has never been anything else.

No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#97

Post by MrZongle2 »

evan_ wrote: post #18
johndunne wrote: post #10

With today's political climate I can't help but think that something like this could happen again.

It kind of already is happening in the US right now in the form of "Family detention centers" intended to detain non-citizens slated for deportation. If Trump's administration seriously plans on "rounding up" millions of people for deportation, they'll have to be lodged somewhere while they are tried (assuming they're granted trials, who knows anymore) and travel arrangements are made. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/…

"...intended to detain non-citizens slated for deportation."

Your statement raises two distinct questions:

Q1) Why are these individuals being detained? Are they visitors to the United States, with a valid visa, merely subject to detention by a bigoted law enforcement agency...or are have they broken one or more existing U.S. laws by overstaying their visa or illegally entering the country?

If the former, then yes, it is shameful and should be addressed immediately.

If the latter, then they are being detained as any anyone would be if they had been accused of a crime and considered a flight risk.

Q2) How are they being detained? Are the conditions considered acceptable by third-party organizations such as the ICRC? Are detainees being provided with adequate food, water, shelter, and medical care? Is there an official timetable for the resolution of their detention? Are the reason(s) for their detention documented and available to advocates?

If any of the above questions have a "no" answer, then again it is shameful and should be corrected immediately.

Beyond that, the United States is not conducting itself in a manner inconsistent with most other nations in the world.

As for Trump and the mythical "rounding up" plans: just stop it.

Seriously.

This kind of hysterical fearmongering is just as absurd as Glenn Beck's "Obama's gonna round up conservatives and put them into FEMA camps" bullshit from a couple of years ago. It is just as unsubstantiated, just as inflammatory, and just as likely to be fought tooth and nail by average Americans.

Any social advocate will tell you that this ain't the 1940s.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#98

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

coldpie wrote: post #54
katkattac wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a quote from General John L. DeWitt, head of the U.S. Army’s Western Defense Command. He's basically the guy that convinced the president that this was a good idea. Why we put people like him in power (instead of prison), I'll never understand.

The next United States Secretary of Defense: "There are some people who think you have to hate them in order to shoot them. I don’t think you do. It’s just business." "You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil. You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them. Actually it’s quite fun to fight them,…

I think incoming national security advisor Michael Flynn would be a more apt point of comparison:

"We are facing another 'ism,' just like we faced Nazism, and fascism, and imperialism and communism," Flynn said. "This is Islamism, it is a vicious cancer inside the body of 1.7 billion people on this planet and it has to be excised." - http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/kfile-michael-flynn-a... (apologies for the CNN link, but it's just for the quote).

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#99

Post by avar »

openasocket wrote: post #29

The most absurd thing I read on here was that they were still subjected to the draft . So that Japanese couldn't be trusted to live in the United States without armed guards, but we can totally give them guns and send them off to fight the enemy?!

No more absurd than criminals being given the choice to enlist or prison, which was the practice until Vietnam.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#100

Post by maxerickson »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #57
evan_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of already is happening in the US right now in the form of "Family detention centers" intended to detain non-citizens slated for deportation. If Trump's administration seriously plans on "rounding up" millions of people for deportation, they'll have to be lodged somewhere while they are tried (assuming they're granted trials, who knows anymore) and travel arrangements are made. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/…

Strange how enforcing borders began to be seen as controversial. The explanation that makes the most sense to me is, some people see free movement across borders as a human right, while others view a country as their home, and so should have the right to decide who to let in.

As a practice it is about 100 years old (border enforcement went bigly with WWI).

Maybe the whole idea of national borders is the strange thing.

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