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Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

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Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#91
post #21

In addition to created diamonds, there are other stones that are different from and in some aspects better than diamonds. The best one seems to be Moissanite, which also has the rather pedestrian name of silicon carbide. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moissanite Here's a strong opinion about why diamonds suck and you should go with alternatives: http://diamondssuck.com/ Lastly, a more dispassionate analysis: http:…

Last month when the HN discussion on moissanite came out, I looked around for moissanite polishing tutorial and how to create your own moissanite. To my surprise, there were so limited resources available online

Manufacturing your own moissanite is hard. Crystalline silicon carbide is produced as an industrial process for the semiconductor industry. Jewelry makers purchase boules from them. The major US moissanite maker sources their SiC from Cree.

Cutting and polishing, however, should be comparable to any other gemstone.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#93
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There already is, it's called De Beers. It's exactly because of the artificially inflated price that the mining practices are damaging.

Except De Beers gets to keep the money, thus making it attractive to dig big holes. If they had to hand it over to the Customs Officers those holes would suddenly be less attractive.

Conflict diamonds would still be profitable, and diamonds are easy to smuggle. If lab diamonds can overcome the marketing problem, they will bury De Beers and drive the price into the ground for natural diamonds, and the whole dirty industry goes away.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#94
post #31

I've been running a lab-grown diamond company since 2005. I'd be happy to answer any questions in the morning.

What is the profit margin? It seems very large.

They are smaller than people think. Not counting the years of R&D, one average growth cycle for one white diamond actually costs more than what mining companies typically report for their cost-per-rough-carat dug from the ground. Mines use giant diesel earth moving and processing equipment, while we use scientists, electricity, and advanced machinery and alloys, but the variable cost-per-carat for rough diamonds are somewhat comparable.

From there, the cost for polishing, grading reports, jewelry, logistics, marketing, etc. are all basically the same whether the diamond was grown or mined. White grown diamonds are generally 10-30% less expensive at retail than mined diamonds, however most of that is just due to lean, vertically integrated companies. We grow, cut, distribute and retail our diamonds as well as jewelry, so have a bigger slice of the rough-to-retail pie. That extra margin isn't huge, but is enough to sustain the business as well as progress the research, development and production. Mined diamonds pass through many more hands between the mine and the consumer, and each step adds some markup. A mined diamond entity that only sells rough, only polishes, or only buys and sells polished mined diamonds at wholesale would see smaller margins, but that can be made up for in greater volume of mined diamonds traded.

It is also worth pointing out that the diamond success rate is sustainable, but not every growth cycle is profitable. While we can monitor the external HPHT equipment, we cannot see the actual diamond growth until after the cycle is complete. For example, a cycle may run for two weeks, but we find out afterward that it stopped growing on day three, or there were some bad inclusions on day six, and what could have been polished into a one carat gemstone (and cost the same to grow) may not yield anything, or may only yield a much smaller gemstone. The total production cost has to be averaged over the total successful sales. This includes growing diamonds that sit in inventory for a long time due to lower clarity, less desirable colors, etc.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#95
post #92

> And larger stones get laser-inscribed, so that the manufactured stones literally have words like "lab-grown" written right on them. Why?

Manufacturers want their product to be accepted for what it is, rather than a vehicle for defrauding others.

If someone bought a manufactured stone expecting it to have been mined (and paid the premium currently accorded to mined stones), the buyer might direct a fraction of their disappointment at the manufacturer, instead of the deserving fraudulent seller.

Adding a nigh-invisible mark makes it trivial for a jeweler to tell the difference, and stops all but the least-informed fraudulent sellers before they begin.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#96

I've been running a lab-grown diamond company since 2005. I'd be happy to answer any questions in the morning.

Why are lab grown diamonds still priced in the 1000+ range. Does it actually cost that much to manufacture. Making up research cost? Just high profit margin?

I just added this related comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13089809

TL;DR They have very similar cost structures as mined diamonds (rough [mine vs. grow], polishing, grading, etc.), plus the R&D and failure/success rates.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#97

I've been running a lab-grown diamond company since 2005. I'd be happy to answer any questions in the morning.

How cheap can good quality diamond get? If you're buying raw carbon in the form of coal, it costs about $40 per ton. The rest is manufacturing details. I know there's a lot of manufacturing details, but the cost of the inputs suggests that diamonds in bulk could be much much cheaper.

If a large enough production facility (no R&D) had nearly every growth cycle yield large enough, colorless, flawless diamonds (or close to it), the retail prices could come down more than they currently are. However, that does not reflect the current reality and all producers today are basically in R&D mode with mixed success rates and mixed finished quality.

If someone showed up tomorrow with a check for several million dollars, I believe we could "disrupt" the current diamond pricing within 3-5 years. However, as I mentioned in another post in this thread, raw cost of production will still keep those "disrupted" non-R&D diamonds much more expensive than moissanite, CZs, sapphires and other gemstones.

Diamond is a form of carbon, and its growth is more-or-less determined by nature. The cost of production over time will be more similar to an industry like steel, than assembled goods like TVs or computers. There are improvements to be made, but they are more linear over time, than exponential breakthroughs.

For raw carbon, we use a highly refined and purified form of graphite. If you used the $40/ton coal, you would not be successful in growing jewelry-quality diamonds, and even if you did, the other costs wouldn't really change your ultimate price much.

Another analogy is gold. You can buy a 1 Troy-ounce bar of 24 karat gold for a bit over $1000. However, a solitaire engagement ring with much less actual gold content can cost more than $1000. People ask why the jewelry is more expensive, but don't include the cost for refining and alloys, design, 3D printing or molds, casting and investments, polishing, setting, shipping, ring boxes, and all the other overhead associated with turning that gold bar into a sold, ready-to-wear ring.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For HPHT, there are three primary machine designs, but they all create intense heat and pressure, and dissolved graphite slowly builds up on a diamond seed ( 1. BARS press. It is a Russian design from the 1980s capable of up to 2-3 carat polished sizes, and was one of the first methods to commercially grow jewelry-grade diamonds. It is much less efficient than modern presses though. 2. Cubic press. This is a much lar…

I guess a follow up question would be, if one wanted their own diamond making machine where would they get it. Obviously your company is an option "for qualified parties"

Yes, we can sell brand-new presses along with the IP and recipes, or can consider a JV, production contract or some similar arrangement.

Otherwise, for HPHT, you can find used BARS presses, mostly in Russia. They are certainly capable of growing diamonds, but are like comparing emissions, performance and fuel efficiency of a 1980s carbureted vehicle to a 2016 fuel-injected vehicle. Used cubic presses can be found in China, however those presses were built for grit and powder, which run short cycles (Companies sell new CVD reactors, as they have more applications than just diamonds, but they do not come with any diamond knowhow.

With all of those, you will have to develop your own recipes and growth cells or methods. Unless you have plenty of time and advanced degrees in physics, chemistry and/or material science, it will probably be an exercise in futility.

The original Florida-based Gemesis is a good example of this. They were VC funded and bought BARS presses, that at-the-time, could only grow orange diamonds. Gemesis made dozens if not hundreds of these presses however, when they ran out of money years later, they could still only grow orange diamonds. A Singapore company bought those presses (mostly to grow CVD seeds and HPHT-treat CVD rough) and to my knowledge, still can't reliably grow blue or colorless diamonds with those BARS presses.

For a code analogy, they basically "forked" the orange recipes when they bought the machines from Russia, and haven't been able to merge any upstream advancements since. BARS have basically been deprecated, so that stack is no longer developed.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#99
post #8

I shopped for created diamonds a year or two ago, and like others was disappointed with the cost savings. It seems awfully odd that on the spectrum from $0.01/caret to $1,000,000/caret, that created diamonds ended up costing exactly the same as a mined diamond, less maybe 30%. It's clear that there are only a couple players in the clear created diamonds market, and no one is too eager for a price war and to stop prin…

I have other comments in this thread about cost, but it basically comes down to "they cost a lot more to grow than people think", and the costs after the rough diamond is grown are basically the same as mined diamonds (cutting, grading, etc.). Diamond is the hardest substance on earth, and it costs far more to polish one of those, regardless of origin, than it does to polish an imitation or other gemstone.

Re: Lab-Grown Diamonds Come into Their Own

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, my now fiance loves her Moissanite stone. I actually got it from AliExpress and then had it appraised by a jeweler to check it's authenticity. Saved a bunch of money and got a great product.

Pictures?

Diamon vs Mossanite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZE3Vkb85Z4
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