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I had a health crisis in France

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Re: I had a health crisis in France

#91

Post by tomp »

antirez wrote: post #21

This is normal on all western Europe states. However France has very high standards in general about health care and is regarded as one of the best systems. I think it's time for US citizens to accept that most of Europe has better life expectancy, lower infant mortality than US, and to be ill is not a financial tragedy. Moreover the treatment that a low-income and high-income citizen receives is very similar, so the…

> Obama was going in the right direction

Can you expand on this?

I've heard many critics of Obamacare (that say it doesn't actually work that well in reality), and in general, it seems that it was only tackling a part of the problem. In Europe, you usually have a single payer, single buyer and single executor (or at least each of those is very regulated, so there's less chance for exploitative monopolistic behaviour than in the US).

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#92

Post by wav-part »

rapala wrote: post #73
wav-part wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others != I will not insure my health. US health system needs competition more than socialism [1]. [1] https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault EDIT: A really good comment from link above. Mark S - https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#co... The culprit in virtually all health care or drug price gouging outrages is insurance and "free" taxpayer money. Ameri…

>I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others != I will not insure my health. But it is. Insurance works by pooling money from a group of people where only few are going to use it. >People never ask "So, what does this drug/treatment cost?" but rather "Do you accept my insurance?" Which makes sense, as survival and physical and mental well-being are humans primary needs.

> But it is. Insurance works by pooling money from a group of people where only few are going to use it.

Except not everyone paying the same amount. Most pay nothing. That is, in socialist health care system.

And I am not just refering to insurance but also investment toward better medical education. If there is medical advancement going on then we have to collectively make sure that we all get it at good price. I am advocating more proactiviness toward our own health rather than rely on government to do it. But sadly government interference make this very difficult.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#93

Post by brianwawok »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #84
barry-cotter wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the difference between US and other OECD countries in infant mortality is that the US has a much lower standard for what's considered a viable birth. Basically, lots of what in France are classified as still births would be infant deaths in the US.

Using: http://chartsbin.com/view/1445 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mo... births out of 1000 that are stillbirths: France 3.87 UK 3.50 USA 2.95 Germany 2.43 Infant Mortality (under 5) per 1000 live births USA 5.87 UK 4.38 France 4.30 Germany 3.70 Combining the two for a birthed (Still or not) and didn't make it to 5 rate: USA: 8.8 France: 8.2 UK: 7.9 Germany: 6.1 Obviously the studies…

Now refine that down to college educated nonndrug using people. I suspect it would be even more narrow.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#94

Post by zdkl »

ekianjo wrote: post #33
iraklism wrote: post #30

I still giggle a bit every single time one of these EU healthcare stories pops up. It highlights a core difference between one of the two most "advanced" places in the western world. For us Europeans, we don't even think that free healthcare, free education ( university included ) , and free state support when things go wrong is a right. It is a as essential as a core human function as breathing and blinking. We don'…

> free education ( university included ) La Fac is one of the worst places to get an education though.

If you're not in the fac mindset, sure. But still, equal access and cheap education is not something to spit at!

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#95

Post by ersii »

badminton1 wrote: post #44

Healthcare professionals are expensive since they require significant preparation. But there is fishy stuff going on too... 1 liter sterile bag of saltwater for intervenous use in American hospitals is charged at over $300, not considering the cost of the procedure, which can total $500. The pharmaceutical industry also does some sort of disservice to society by inflating prices so much. Then, some money stays at the…

That said, even single-payer systems as the ones in Western Europe can have this exact same problem. Like when Region Stockholm / Stockholm County (Responsible for Health Care and Public Transport) in Sweden bought supplies like support socks for 6000 SEK/pair (~645 USD) [1].

I'm guessing - but I do not think it's a good thing when people who make the purchasing and oversight of things are far away from the actual practitioners. It leaves a lot of room for different kinds of shenanigans, fraud and sub-optimal choices. I think that applies regardless if you're for Private or Public health care.

[1] http://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/stockholm/landstinget-kopte...

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#96

Post by quantum_state »

jdub wrote: post #74
iraklism wrote: post #30

I still giggle a bit every single time one of these EU healthcare stories pops up. It highlights a core difference between one of the two most "advanced" places in the western world. For us Europeans, we don't even think that free healthcare, free education ( university included ) , and free state support when things go wrong is a right. It is a as essential as a core human function as breathing and blinking. We don'…

There's another way to look at it that I don't think the USA will be ready to understand any time soon: Universal health and education are (key parts of) freedom. You can even put a market spin on it: None of the risks involved in starting a small business in Australia have to do with health care for myself, or for people who might consider joining my small business as employees. I've never felt as if I'm giving up a…

With the election in US, I have to say that civilization in the country has been set back for many centuries.. not surprised to see a dog bites dog environment in the States...

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#97

Post by Majestic121 »

ekianjo wrote: post #33
iraklism wrote: post #30

I still giggle a bit every single time one of these EU healthcare stories pops up. It highlights a core difference between one of the two most "advanced" places in the western world. For us Europeans, we don't even think that free healthcare, free education ( university included ) , and free state support when things go wrong is a right. It is a as essential as a core human function as breathing and blinking. We don'…

> free education ( university included ) La Fac is one of the worst places to get an education though.

Just look at the Shanghai Ranking, some facs seems to be doing pretty good : http://www.shanghairanking.com/World-University-Rankings-201...

While it is true that there are some very bad Facs and cursuses, dissing 'La fac' altogether seems a bit harsh

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#98

Post by avar »

smcl wrote: post #3

It'll be a long time until the entire USA implements socialised healthcare (if it happens at all...) but are there any individual states which have something resembling a single-payer system, or is this an issue where they all have roughly the same system? Also for some reason this reminded me of a BBC story I read a while back - where "Heavy Legs" is described as a medical condition that only exists in France: http:…

My impression (as a European) of the US system is that in practice what we have with individual states here in Europe + EU isn't possible in the US, since the federal government taxes are proportionally so high, compared to what individual EU members contribute to the EU.

Thus while individual states could implement their own health care system, it would have to be on top of everything that's federally mandated, which they're already paying for. The tax burden would be outrageous, so it just doesn't happen.

It's also odd to see other Europeans dismiss the argument many Americans have for a smaller federal government, while in practice that's pretty much what we have over here in the EU. Could you imagine a EU-wide single-payer health care system? It would be a complete disaster.

So in that sense I wonder if the better solution for the EU would be to roll back all federal health entitlements (Medicare etc.) and just implement this completely on the state levels, then states like California and the like could have European-like single-payer health care systems, while perhaps other states would opt for different systems.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#99

Post by alkonaut »

tomp wrote: post #91
antirez wrote: post #21

This is normal on all western Europe states. However France has very high standards in general about health care and is regarded as one of the best systems. I think it's time for US citizens to accept that most of Europe has better life expectancy, lower infant mortality than US, and to be ill is not a financial tragedy. Moreover the treatment that a low-income and high-income citizen receives is very similar, so the…

> Obama was going in the right direction Can you expand on this? I've heard many critics of Obamacare (that say it doesn't actually work that well in reality), and in general, it seems that it was only tackling a part of the problem. In Europe, you usually have a single payer, single buyer and single executor (or at least each of those is very regulated, so there's less chance for exploitative monopolistic behaviour…

ACA is a step in the right direction. Before US healthcare actually improves for a majority (and not just the uninsured - which isn't a small thing in itself) many more steps is needed.

The best way to move ACA in a progressive direction would be to have a large public player in both insurance and as a provider.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#100

Post by 6t6t6t6 »

ekianjo wrote: post #47
ThePhysicist wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France you pay 0 % taxes for the first 9.700 € of income, then 14 % for everything up to 26.791 €, then 30 % for everything up to 71.826 €, then 41 % for everything up to 152.108 € and 45 % for everything beyond that [1]. Hence 23 % effective tax rate sounds reasonable for an average income of around 50.000 €. The tax system in many European countries is similar btw, as is the health system. [1] https://fr.wikiped…

You don't live in urban centers like Paris with 50k revenue.

There are literally millions of people living with less than 50k in Paris...

http://www.journaldunet.com/business/salaire/paris/departeme...

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