Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python • Hacker News Board

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#91

Post by bcl » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 1:40 PM UTC

zedshaw wrote: post #49

fretlessjazz wrote: post #18

"If a programmer tells you to use vim or emacs tell them no. These editors are for when you are a better programmer. All you need right now is an editor that lets you put text into a file." Ha! When I started to program, everyone told me the opposite. After weeks of head scratching and spending more time learning editors than coding, I secretly switched to Pico. But man could I use the hell out of Pico.

I'm actually looking for a simple editor that works on all platforms, doesn't look totally like ass, and is easy to use. I'll then change things up so people just install that. Basically a GUI cross platform pico would be perfect.

gvim

no, really.

The basic vim commands are easy. As with python you can ignore the more advanced topics until you are ready to take advantage of them. It has a GUI interface so users used to pointing and clicking will feel comfortable.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#92

Post by migiale » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 1:51 PM UTC

Hi,

There's a long tradition in ex-USSR math schools and math department of "teaching by doing", or by solving to be more precise. And I think it gives superior results given talented and motivated students. have you ever seen this book?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Algorithms-Programming-Undergraduate...

it would be really cool to have a book of the same level for python.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#93

Post by Kilimanjaro » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 1:59 PM UTC

Easy read, I'd use it if I were learning python.

Now to the critics:

- Change the book title. If I see it on a shelf I wouldn't pick it. "Easy Python", "Python: First Steps", "Become a Pythonista" or something more approachable to the unwashed.

- PDF sucks for online reading. Big time. Make it one huge html file, no page breaks, no headers and footers on every page, it sucks. Epub may be a good choice but I rather use one single html file.

Good work!

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#94

Post by cracki » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 2:25 PM UTC

i see some strange things in the truth tables.

first, the left and right operands are ordered differently. on second glance, this smells like gray code, so only one operand changes to the next line. nevermind my reaction here.

then, the NOT AND table contradicts what python evaluates the forms to.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#95

Post by julio_the_squid » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 2:26 PM UTC

callahad wrote: post #83

zedshaw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to know what you think is less good.

The items on my "less good" list are admittedly subjective, but might be worth considering as you continue to develop the text. And in this case, I mean "less good" as "not bad, but not yet great." For instance, should you be using printf style formatting when string.format is is available by default in 2.6, Snow Leopard's default python? A weaker argument could be made for importing print_function from __future__, b…

I am relatively new to Python and wrote a Django app using string.format through and through. Then, I had to install it on our server... which apparently uses Python 2.4 and we can't upgrade at the moment. It all had to be changed to the printf style to be compatible... so, I think learning that is still relevant since it works in every Python version.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#96

Post by julio_the_squid » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 2:28 PM UTC

A lot of people mention Dive into Python. I'm curious, what are the opinions out there regarding this online Python book?

http://homepage.mac.com/s_lott/books/python.html

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#97

Post by giardini » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 2:35 PM UTC

re Section 10.2: I'd suggest defining operator precedence rather than asking the programmer to, for example, memorize tables of logical operations.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#98

Post by dotandimet » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 2:40 PM UTC

The first example print statements in Zed's book have backticks (`foo`). I don't know Python, but I'm guessing those should be single ticks ('foo')?

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#99

Post by code_duck » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 2:51 PM UTC

fretlessjazz wrote: post #18

"If a programmer tells you to use vim or emacs tell them no. These editors are for when you are a better programmer. All you need right now is an editor that lets you put text into a file." Ha! When I started to program, everyone told me the opposite. After weeks of head scratching and spending more time learning editors than coding, I secretly switched to Pico. But man could I use the hell out of Pico.

I agree, vim is overwhelming at first. It simply does not work like a new user expects... i.e., you can just start typing and using arrow keys.

Nano is much more straightforward.

What these people should really be using, though, is Kate on Linux, or Notepad++ in Windows. I gather that Textmate is the equivalent for Macs, but I've never used that personally.

Syntax highlighting and a multiple document interface goes a long way.

Re: Zed Shaw is Writing A Book Teaching Beginner Python

#100

Post by Adrock » Sun, Apr 25, 2010, 2:54 PM UTC

jules wrote: post #85

zedshaw wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually looking for a simple editor that works on all platforms, doesn't look totally like ass, and is easy to use. I'll then change things up so people just install that. Basically a GUI cross platform pico would be perfect.

I recommend Scite. It has syntax highlighting and runs the program and displays output when you press F5, and the UI is very similar to notepad.

I second Scite. My favorite features are the ability to print with syntax highlighting and copy to the clipboard as RTF with syntax highlighting.