So these ships are just sitting there off shore?
What stops pirates from taking over the ships? What about the crews just taking what they want and leaving?
Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
91–100 of 224 posts
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#92I'm curious - and surprised nobody seems to have mentioned or asked - what happens to all the sailors working aboard the ships, which are now stranded offshore? Do they continue working aboard, knowing that they probably won't be paid (because the company is bankrupt)? What's morale like? Can they leave, and how would they logistically? What kind of laws and rights (if any) apply to them in these circumstances? It's…
I wondered about that too. What if they all decided to simply abandon ship and head for land, leaving a ship to flounder and possibly become a hazard to other vessels or cause an environmental problem when it crashes into a reef or similar?
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#93I'm curious - and surprised nobody seems to have mentioned or asked - what happens to all the sailors working aboard the ships, which are now stranded offshore? Do they continue working aboard, knowing that they probably won't be paid (because the company is bankrupt)? What's morale like? Can they leave, and how would they logistically? What kind of laws and rights (if any) apply to them in these circumstances? It's…
I wondered about that too. What if they all decided to simply abandon ship and head for land, leaving a ship to flounder and possibly become a hazard to other vessels or cause an environmental problem when it crashes into a reef or similar?
The officers, at the very least, would be criminally liable.
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#94So these ships are just sitting there off shore? What stops pirates from taking over the ships? What about the crews just taking what they want and leaving?
What are you going to steal from these ships? Everything's in containers and those are packed really tightly together, there's no accommodation for opening these doors while the ship is loaded.
If you have another self-loading container ship you might be able to pull off a big heist, but who has one of those just kicking around?
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#95Amazing that this happens on top of such low prices for crude oil. What's going on? EDIT: Yes I read the article. Seriously, oil is so cheap and this still happened? It's just mind boggling to me.
Oil is much less of a factor in shipping costs than people realise. These container ships are incredible, in terms of what they can carry versus the cost of the fuel.
The amount of fuel these ships burn is absolutely nuts, as much as 200-300 tons per day, approximately 65,000 to 95,000 gallons of the stuff, but the size of the ships is even more stupidly crazy, upwards of 150,000 tons, that they're actually quite efficient when you do the math.
It probably takes 5,000 trucks to carry the containers stacked on one of the larger cargo ships and they burn way more than 19 gallons of fuel per day.
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#96So these ships are just sitting there off shore? What stops pirates from taking over the ships? What about the crews just taking what they want and leaving?
What are you going to steal from these ships? Everything's in containers and those are packed really tightly together, there's no accommodation for opening these doors while the ship is loaded. If you have another self-loading container ship you might be able to pull off a big heist, but who has one of those just kicking around?
As a thought experiment... let's say your pirate crew has an unloading port someplace. Why not take the ship and get going to said port? Would the crew alert the navy/coast guard? Probably.
But then what?
The navy kills the pirates and liberates the vessel... And Hanjin refuses to take it back? The navy now has the responsibility of getting it to port and unloading it, despite ports not wanting to do that?
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you going to steal from these ships? Everything's in containers and those are packed really tightly together, there's no accommodation for opening these doors while the ship is loaded. If you have another self-loading container ship you might be able to pull off a big heist, but who has one of those just kicking around?
As a thought experiment... let's say your pirate crew has an unloading port someplace. Why not take the ship and get going to said port? Would the crew alert the navy/coast guard? Probably. But then what? The navy kills the pirates and liberates the vessel... And Hanjin refuses to take it back? The navy now has the responsibility of getting it to port and unloading it, despite ports not wanting to do that?
This seems like a rather pointless thought exercise, but the Navy has a responsibility to enforce law and order (...in addition to extra-legal responsibilities), and impact on "bottom line" is not really a factor considered directly in military operations.
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a thought experiment... let's say your pirate crew has an unloading port someplace. Why not take the ship and get going to said port? Would the crew alert the navy/coast guard? Probably. But then what? The navy kills the pirates and liberates the vessel... And Hanjin refuses to take it back? The navy now has the responsibility of getting it to port and unloading it, despite ports not wanting to do that?
This seems like a rather pointless thought exercise, but the Navy has a responsibility to enforce law and order (...in addition to extra-legal responsibilities), and impact on "bottom line" is not really a factor considered directly in military operations.
I didn't say it was. I'm asking "and then what?" Can they force a port to take in and unload a ship? Would they just leave it adrift? Would they unload it themselves?
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#99This is a mess because Hanjin's top management was in denial about the possibility of bankruptcy. Just like the typical startup. They've been trying for months to get a bailout deal from somebody, anybody - a merger, loans, their parent chaebol, their stockholders (Korean Air is the largest), or the S. Korean government. Everybody turned them down. There's too much container ship capacity right now; nobody needed Han…
> This will all get unwound, but it's going to take weeks or months.
Does "this" just refer to Hanjin's mess, or does it also include the possibility, described in the OP, of several other shipping companies also going under?
Re: Why billions of dollars of goods are stuck at sea
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Insurance against late delivery is available but very expensive. Ordinary marine insurance does not cover this. The cargo isn't lost, just late.
How does insurance treat the use case where creditors seize the cargo and liquidate it to pay themselves back?
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