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How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

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Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#91

Post by ryandrake »

arkadiyt wrote: post #16
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is just sad. I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it wh…

I disagree. From his about page: > I quickly rose to the top of my class, and after two months into the three-month bootcamp, I was asked to join the instructional team. Three months later, I was promoted to Director of Product. That wouldn't have happened if he wasn't good at what he does. Clearly he is doing something that is more than just the right charm. Also, letting go of whatever opinion you have about his te…

> That wouldn't have happened if he wasn't good at what he does.

Never underestimate the immense power of bullshit. I've seen people rise through the ranks fueled by nothing but it. I know senior software engineers who cannot write code, but can look great TALKING about code. I know engineering managers who cannot manage, but can self-promote and dazzle you in an interview. It's truly an art.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#92

Post by ryandrake »

well_negotiator wrote: post #66
caminante wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> O.o These numbers are surprisingly high, to the point of almost being unbelievable. Bingo! He's joking.

Sorry, but this is real. It's very normal for a new grad googler to make $185k total comp in first year. Offers i had got, Uber, Airbnb, Snapchat, Google, Robinhood, Netflix, Salesforce, Affirm, An investment bank in NYC, Two stealth startup in SF. In Facebook, it's very common for one high perfoming engineer getting discretionary equity of 1M+ if you do re-defines or create a meaningful impact. I'm sorry i'm not goi…

Thank you, anonymous person on the internet. You are talking about outlier people at outlier companies. The majority of software engineers not in top roles inside top companies are not making even close to that.

Every compensation discussion on HN invariably brings out of the woodwork That One Guy Who Knows That One Guy Who Makes $400K at Google. The take-away from reading these threads should NOT be that this is an ordinary compensation.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Sa...

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/san-francisco-software-en...

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#93

Post by vonmoltke »

mstade wrote: post #79
_9vpl wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be true if your offer was negotiated with a distant bureaucratic committee (or board), but most of the time, regardless of who they represent, you're just dealing with people.

Many companies, particularly the larger organizations, have pretty strict boundaries though. Case in point: in a large corporation we tried recruiting an incredibly talented developer, but because of company rules, we couldn't offer him what he asked for despite us thinking he was definitely worth it (and really, it wasn't outlandish in any way) but HR would never let it fly because rules. His problem then, I think,…

> His problem then, I think, was that he mentioned what he'd earned elsewhere, so some policy dictated we couldn't offer more than 20% than that, or whatever. Stupid, silly policy, and just goes to show you should never divulge information the other party just isn't privy to. (I've never told recruiters what I earned before, that's not their business.)

Actually, that sounds like a great reason to volunteer my current salary. As long as I'm not desperate I don't want to work for a company that maintains such an idiotic policy, because it tells me something about how they view and value their employees.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#94

Post by sidlls »

AstralStorm wrote: post #53
scotthtaylor wrote: post #45

Such a silly article; not a great way to start a relationship with your new colleagues.

Are you assuming HR is truly your colleague? Or maybe CFO or CEO? No, they are your bosses. They might be colleagues, but that is secondary.

Can't emphasize this enough. This kind of mistake is common in our industry, though. I wish more software developers understood that when they say "human resources" they aren't lying: we are resources, like paper, electricity, and IT infrastructure. We are not their "colleagues," they don't see us as "colleagues," and it is damn obvious we aren't treated like colleagues.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#95

Post by akhilcacharya »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #11
paulcole wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he's clearly a pretty skilled self-teacher I think it's pronounced "self-promoter."

Yeah, this is just sad. I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it wh…

>I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that.

Hold up, by this logic does this mean that people who don't have these things (no advanced math, no top-tier 4 year school) should receive salaries that are even less than half of that?

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#96

Post by Hydraulix989 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #95
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is just sad. I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. These are surely some of the smartest people in the world, too, but I suppose they don't play the "bluffing" game all too well (er, "negotation" -- call it wh…

>I know people personally that worked their asses off learning systems programming, algorithms, and advanced mathematics at top-tier four-year colleges with absolutely fantastic technical CVs that got offers that aren't even half of that. Hold up, by this logic does this mean that people who don't have these things (no advanced math, no top-tier 4 year school) should receive salaries that are even less than half of t…

No, that's the logical fallacy of "denying the antecedent."

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#97

Post by PieterH »

johnnyfaehell wrote: post #35
PieterH wrote: post #27

It's this kind of personality that I look for in my organisations, mainly to isolate and slowly get rid of. The focus on "me" is so toxic. No amount of brilliance makes up for circles of damage to other, modest, hard working people.

Having a bunch of people who think the same, leads to group think. Having someone who like attention isn't necessary bad. Just like having someone who complains a lot isn't bad. (in fact if you look at team dynamics they'll end up being the most important type of person to have on a team to create a high performing team.) It's how the team and management react to a team member that creates toxic environments. If you…

Oh, I'm a great fan of diverse thinking in a group. Trouble with dominant individuals is they wipe that out, since most people will accept someone's contradictory opinion if it's backed up by force and charisma. And yes, such people can absolutely ruin a team, I've seen it happen many, many times. That is why I treat them as problems to solve.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#98

Post by well_negotiator »

selimthegrim wrote: post #73
well_negotiator wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is real. It's very normal for a new grad googler to make $185k total comp in first year. Offers i had got, Uber, Airbnb, Snapchat, Google, Robinhood, Netflix, Salesforce, Affirm, An investment bank in NYC, Two stealth startup in SF. In Facebook, it's very common for one high perfoming engineer getting discretionary equity of 1M+ if you do re-defines or create a meaningful impact. I'm sorry i'm not goi…

He's not joking. This is the talking style of all those people from IIT and IIM bragging about their "pay packets" to "freshers" about to be ragged. I wonder if he is going to copy/paste that directly into his matrimonial.

Sorry, but your comment is not constructive in anyway. Please read guidelines :)

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#99

Post by well_negotiator »

ryandrake wrote: post #92
well_negotiator wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is real. It's very normal for a new grad googler to make $185k total comp in first year. Offers i had got, Uber, Airbnb, Snapchat, Google, Robinhood, Netflix, Salesforce, Affirm, An investment bank in NYC, Two stealth startup in SF. In Facebook, it's very common for one high perfoming engineer getting discretionary equity of 1M+ if you do re-defines or create a meaningful impact. I'm sorry i'm not goi…

Thank you, anonymous person on the internet. You are talking about outlier people at outlier companies. The majority of software engineers not in top roles inside top companies are not making even close to that. Every compensation discussion on HN invariably brings out of the woodwork That One Guy Who Knows That One Guy Who Makes $400K at Google. The take-away from reading these threads should NOT be that this is an…

Yes. I'm not in average but i won't call myself an outlier. Outliers never come out and talk about their compensation to be frank.

Not posting this to brag. I'd like to increase awareness among engineers to negotiate.

I can show you my W-2 at the end of this year.

Re: How Not to Bomb Your Offer Negotiation

#100

Post by ThePawnBreak »

mstade wrote: post #77
ThePawnBreak wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you can negociate if you have offers from Google, Facebook and Palantir in London. Negociating only works in hot markets, and there are very few of them for tech in the EU.

Maybe, but the compensation range for developers in London is much narrower than you might think. From what I've seen, most startups offer in the range £30k-70k per year, probably with some mostly useless stock option deal. I've seen salaries out of Amazon and Facebook starting at £50k, and even at investment banks, for more junior positions. These are all basically suckers, given the cost of living in London, among…

Both Facebook and Google pay about £80k for new grads (£60k salary + £20k in stock and bonus). Seniors earn about double that. Palantir pays interns £5k / month plus free rent.
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