Live data from Hacker News

Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

techcrunch.com

91–100 of 172 posts

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#91
post #69
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem I find (and one I've seen in a lot of cofounder groups) is that most of the people who want to start startups are visionaries. It's simpler than that. Most people just prefer slacking off to working their butts off. However it's the narcissists and sociopaths that will call their slacking off being "visionary" while the good guys either just leave or start working their butts off as everybody else. Obvi…

Working your butt off has zero to do with having a executable vision that creates value. Clearly shit needs to get done, but there's only so many hours in the a life of a startup and being able to see what needs to be done ultimately is more important than just getting stuff done. __ "I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it." - Bill Gates

I get what you're saying, and i think the whole "you gotta work your butt off to be successful" thing is a lingering noting from workoholic culture. "How many hours you put in?" is the corporate version of "how much can you lift?" And I believe it's not exactly right; working smarter is better than just working harder. But both do entail work.

Then again, isn't there some quote about inspiration and perspiration ;)

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#92

I've cofounded 4 different startups. All were good ideas that bled cash or time and flopped, largely due to infighting or founder differences. One cofounder of one of the companies got really nasty about trying to leave with the rights to the company and we other two cofounders just let him have it. He sold the rights and it's now a successful venture-backed startup with soaring profits (two cofounders). Good for tha…

Interesting data point. However, we're happily chugging along with 6 co-founders, bootstrapped to currently 30 mln us$ valuation and we've only just begun. Then again, your point about "visionaries" (with which you probably mean high-ego people needing a lot of approval) rings true to me. We're all pretty low-key hard-working people with a lot of self-reflection and humility - also it helps it's not the usual failing…

How did the team come together, how well did you know each other when the company began?

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#93

This is likely putting too much faith in the Crunchbase data. In my experience, Crunchbase very frequently leaves out some founders. Often, only the most prominent founder will be reported, thus underreporting the instances of having 2+ founders.

But then again how many of these companies with cofounders, really only had cofounders-in-name-only? Where one person really drove everything but at some point thought - oh shit, if I'm going to be successful, I need a cofounder!

Given the dogmatic advice "YOU NEED A COFOUNDER", I'm sure a lot of it's title inflation - what would normally be first employees are elevated to founder status to look good for the pitch deck or just to follow the advice. That said, they're still going to be quality people - less met at a find-a-technical-cofounder event, more Biz Stone style "can my title be cofounder lol?"

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#94
post #43

I've cofounded 4 different startups. All were good ideas that bled cash or time and flopped, largely due to infighting or founder differences. One cofounder of one of the companies got really nasty about trying to leave with the rights to the company and we other two cofounders just let him have it. He sold the rights and it's now a successful venture-backed startup with soaring profits (two cofounders). Good for tha…

> The problem I find (and one I've seen in a lot of cofounder groups) is that most of the people who want to start startups are visionaries. It's simpler than that. Most people just prefer slacking off to working their butts off. However it's the narcissists and sociopaths that will call their slacking off being "visionary" while the good guys either just leave or start working their butts off as everybody else. Obvi…

I'm not sure I would go that far but I have always had very mediocre experiences with people who describe themselves as "visionary"

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#95

This is likely putting too much faith in the Crunchbase data. In my experience, Crunchbase very frequently leaves out some founders. Often, only the most prominent founder will be reported, thus underreporting the instances of having 2+ founders.

But then again how many of these companies with cofounders, really only had cofounders-in-name-only? Where one person really drove everything but at some point thought - oh shit, if I'm going to be successful, I need a cofounder! Given the dogmatic advice "YOU NEED A COFOUNDER", I'm sure a lot of it's title inflation - what would normally be first employees are elevated to founder status to look good for the pitch de…

That doesn't really disprove the point though.

Probably the vast majority of startups have a dominant cofounder. You might call them cofounders-in-name-only, but that still validates the notion that you're better off finding a cofounder (even if they're not as central).

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#96
post #83
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working your butt off has zero to do with having a executable vision that creates value. Clearly shit needs to get done, but there's only so many hours in the a life of a startup and being able to see what needs to be done ultimately is more important than just getting stuff done. __ "I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it." - Bill Gates

Oh, I agree that a startup needs an executable vision. However if someone provides just the vision but doesn't put as much work in as everybody else that's an advisory role, not a co-founder role, and should be reflected in the equity distribution. The thing is that vision is just so much easier than actually doing the grinding grunt work. "Vision without execution is hallucination" - Thomas Edison

Disagree. I've literally run a startup where I took an opportunity I saw, pitched it to a cofounder, got a single client, cofounder did all the work. After year, cofounder was tried of doing work, so I told them how to turn the service into a product and rapidly got five clients; after that, the cofounder didn't have to do anymore work either.

I'm not lazy, happy to do hard work, but if I see an exploitable situation I will not create work just to feel good about things.

Do exactly what needs to be done, nothing less, nothing more.

Footnote: Not a fan of Edison, he in fact was lazy, refused to change, and spent a good deal of his life literally pounding rock to no end.

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#97
I started several projects, most of them I would not even call startups. Most of them unfinished, some failed, some successful.

I have tried several times to start something with a buddy from university, with him it's always the same: We talk about it, like the idea, I start to build it, he does not really join in and I lose motivation myself.

The one product which is the most profitable (or profitable at all if you factor in your own hours) is a rather lame one: A sitebuilder for small businesses. I buildt it while still in uni, lived off of it and literally put customers in one by one. Very stressful.

Another one I started after that with a an economics student, who had the initial idea. It was a dating app for students, when Tinder was on the rise in the US and had not gotten to Europe yet. I could not care less about that space, but I knew it was coming and I just wanted to start a real thing with a cofounder, which was totally different, so we did it. Collected a few hundred users from the local universities, ultimately failed, but I learned a few valuable lessons. It was nice having the cofounder around, but he could not really help at that point. He helped a bit with some guerilla marketing and started to work on our investment. I did the main work. That feeling of unfairness - even though you know that it is not on purpose, was really bad.

After that several other people approached me and I said no several times. I really wanted to build something in a team and have it play out. The feeling to fail alone is not good, but cofounders come with a different set of bad feelings. The failed attempts are costly, because you can only endure so much, before you need a success.

So I decided to approach my consulting as a startup and see the company with it's processes involved as the product. Have several employees and work with freelancers. I meet really interesting founders, I can learn from. I get approached to cofound all the time. I did not think that this would be enough, but really I already have the social interactions I was looking for in a cofounder. I just prefer to always have money exchanged for services. You can still be a good partners and maybe join in later, but I am a huge fan to simplify the relationship with payments. I even did some projects with the uni buddy, which work out great all the time.

The sitebuilder is still profitably tucking along. I know see it less as a lame project, which needs so much work, but as an asset and investment potential. Over the years it has brought in several nice opportunities.

To conclude: My solution sounds one-dimensional, but it really is "have a bit of money and success first". The more you have of it, the more interesting the conversations get. It is a nice filter, because people who have it are more likely to be successful again, plus they have the option to just pay you to build their ideas. You become able to do that yourself with yours. The relationships with your partners are just so much easier, you don't depend on the one perfect match, but different people can fulfil different roles, without the risk associated with a cofounder. Even your own projects appear in a better light and look nicer, when your time becomes more valuable.

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#98
post #96
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I agree that a startup needs an executable vision. However if someone provides just the vision but doesn't put as much work in as everybody else that's an advisory role, not a co-founder role, and should be reflected in the equity distribution. The thing is that vision is just so much easier than actually doing the grinding grunt work. "Vision without execution is hallucination" - Thomas Edison

Disagree. I've literally run a startup where I took an opportunity I saw, pitched it to a cofounder, got a single client, cofounder did all the work. After year, cofounder was tried of doing work, so I told them how to turn the service into a product and rapidly got five clients; after that, the cofounder didn't have to do anymore work either. I'm not lazy, happy to do hard work, but if I see an exploitable situation…

Why would you exploit your cofounder into performing a disproportionate amount of work?

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#99
post #21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pick a behind-the-scenes guy if you're a visionary, or make sure you're comfortable as the behind-the-scenes guy if you're partnering with a visionary What's your take on the situation where you are both? (Where somebody is visionary, "knows business" and codes as well.)

Then you don't need a co-founder. It can still be nice to have one, one guys schleps are another persons hobby. Like I'm good at analysis, but bad at dealing with third-parties. The guy I'm working with is good at dealing with third-parties but is a bit slower at dissecting problems. No worries. There's a number of different other pairings of this kind too, some areas where we have overlap, some stuff one of us needs…

Agreed 100%. I could have started my company alone; but then I would've been stuck doing payroll, HR, mediating employee conflict and all that nonsense. My partner is a people person, and I'm not. It works out really well and my staff are happy to not have to deal with me directly (I can be a bit brash).

Re: Breaking a myth: Data shows you don’t actually need a co-founder

#100
post #91
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working your butt off has zero to do with having a executable vision that creates value. Clearly shit needs to get done, but there's only so many hours in the a life of a startup and being able to see what needs to be done ultimately is more important than just getting stuff done. __ "I choose a lazy person to do a hard job. Because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it." - Bill Gates

I get what you're saying, and i think the whole "you gotta work your butt off to be successful" thing is a lingering noting from workoholic culture. "How many hours you put in?" is the corporate version of "how much can you lift?" And I believe it's not exactly right; working smarter is better than just working harder. But both do entail work. Then again, isn't there some quote about inspiration and perspiration ;)

Well, here is this about Bill Gates coding 18hrs a day in his first job. http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/10/bill-gates-first-re...
Post reply on HN