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Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

greatergood.berkeley.edu

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Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#91

Post by morgante »

divbit wrote: post #2

> Live with total integrity. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Words to live by

You could live by those words, but I don't recommend it.

I'm generally very honest about what I think and feel. I never lie. It certainly hasn't earned me many friends.

In contrast, I have a colleague who is constantly cheerful and friendly. Even when she's secretly having a terrible day and even when she doesn't particularly like you. The result is that everyone in the office likes her and she has a very rich/happy private life too. Even if her day starts off poorly, the positivity she receives back from people turns it around.

The worst part about trite articles like this is that they provide literally no evidence for their feel-good conclusions. In fact, they seem to contradict actual research which shows that modulating our feelings and smiling (even when we don't want to) can improve happiness. [0]

If you want to be happy, pretend you're happy. Eventually it won't be an illusion.

[0] http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/07/study-forc...

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#92

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #55
st3v3r wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in your example, John isn't being honest. He's being an asshole. Far too many people conflate the two.

He is being completely honest. Which is what the article espoused. The article also said do not hide your emotions. John is mad about the fact that his friend is wasting his life. I displayed that. If you are defining honest as some midpoint between a white lie and an asshole, then what is being honest? Not being completely honest, but just somewhat honest? Then your "honest" is a healthy mix of white lie and complet…

John is not being completely honest. As I mentioned elsewhere, John is not honest with himself, being unaware of where the roots of this irritation is.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#93

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #56
tdkl wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People pleasing isn't caring about other people. It's being selfish and manipulative in interactions with other people (often without realizing it). Quite the opposite. Indeed, it's passive-agressive behaviour rooted from low self-esteem. "I'll cater to you, so you'll return the favour", but when this isn't reciprocated (since the receiver isn't even aware of this "business transaction"), the giver is feeling anger…

I absolutely despite passive-aggressive behaviour rooted in low self-esteem. They are invisible contracts people set. I think we have just faced a simple labeling problem, with people-pleasing as the ultimate vague word.

That's interesting. Why do you feel contempt for passive-aggressiveness rooted in low-self esteem? Do you feel you are superior to people who do that? Do you feel that those people are weak of character or resolve?

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#94

Post by red_blobs »

Our friend group has a 'people pleaser' and it's fine, most of the time. However, it has become a nightmare (and nearly destroyed our group) because when there is a person that needs to be kicked out of our group for lying/being manipulating/terrible behavior, this person defends them to the end and treats us like the bad guy.

Passive aggression also accompanies 'people pleaser', because the person generally doesn't ever want to tell you what they really want or feel. It's extremely frustrating to deal with a person that behaves like this.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#95

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #48
jonknee wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pleasing people most definitely pays. That is how the world works; you give people what they want, and you get paid. Supply and demand. The article isn't about how to get paid, it's about achieving happiness.

Sigh. I know how to become happy. Getting paid is part of it. For me, happiness comes from Effective Altruism, which comes from increasing the quality of life for as many people as possible, which is only possible with adequate amount of finances. So get paid >> money >> help other people >> makes me happy. Of course, if you aren't self-reliant, the above doesn't mean anything. p.s. pleasing people also makes you hap…

"So get paid >> money >> help other people >> makes me happy."

I was reading up on some things about that, and the ideas of infinite ethics. Combined with your comments here, seems like the philosophy of Effective Altruism still has a long way to go.

If you are practicing what you believe in, though, I salute you.

"p.s. pleasing people also makes you happy, because you develop better relationships."

I'm not so sure about that. Having worked with people who have deep-seated emotional issues, people-pleasing like that creates a fragile edifice. The greater the effort in fulfilling the want without addressing the need, the more fragile the whole situation becomes.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#96

Post by hosh »

avindroth wrote: post #18
Retric wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convincing people to buy stuff they don't need is very common road to wealth.

Give them what they want, not what they need. But many people would have a problem with the above statement. We want to give them what they need. So envelop what they need with what they want. Just like a Trojan horse, once your product is bought/used, they will eventually recognize the benefits of fulfilling their serious need.

"Give them what they want, not what they need. But many people would have a problem with the above statement. We want to give them what they need."

Generally, most people don't have a clear understanding of what they want vs. what they need, and have even more confusions about what other people need.

"So envelop what they need with what they want."

Sure, that works fairly well. It's not the only approach. There are a whole set of teachings that go straight to the point. It is funny, because every time I bring it up to people, people have a lot of problems with that. Heheheh.

The thing is, I know that there comes a time when what is needed is not anything at all like what is wanted, and it is impossible to envelop it with what is wanted. This is usually touching the deep truths, and the want results from attachment, from wanting to deny reality.

Though now that I wrote that down, I'm rethinking about that too. Hmmm.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#97

Post by hosh »

antisthenes wrote: post #29
w1ntermute wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. If you don't understand how to employ false smiles as needed, you won't get very far in life. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made when I was young. Once I learned how to stop being totally honest and how to be friendly to even those I didn't like, a lot of opportunities opened up that I would have never been exposed to otherwise. Simple example: I maintain friendships with people I don't genuinely…

It's one of those "be yourself" types of advice. It works if "yourself" has certain characteristics and doesn't work if the "yourself" doesn't or has other attributes, based on the context. > Simple example: I maintain friendships with people I don't genuinely like primarily because they have wide social circles. Through those people, I've met individuals who I do genuinely like. That's genuinely good advice. You don…

A lot of people have some confusion around "be yourself" advice. There are a lot of things that can be unpacked about it, and people at differing levels of maturity or understanding will see different things.

This is one of the better discussions about this: https://antiblog.quora.com/The-One-Piece-Puzzle-Chapter-2

Some excerpts:

"When people talk about true self in Western culture, the discussion normally tends toward "the Snowflake Model" of identity. That's my phrase for the notion that your true self is discovered by polishing up your understanding of the way in which you are utterly unique, special, and valuable - a "wonderful little snowflake unlike any other.""

... and ...

"Am I like a box, or am I like light? Consider the difference: a box has a boundary, it has fixed characteristics, it has contents. A box wants to survive, it wants its contents kept safe, it wants to be properly labeled, it wants to be approved of when it passes through customs, it does not want to be crushed at the bottom of a huge pyramid of boxes.

A box, ideally, wants to be at the top of the pyramid. Or maybe off by itself, so that it doesn't have to feel anxious about being judged relative to other boxes. A box is an ego.

Light isn't like that: light wants to go everywhere, and it weighs very little."

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#98

Post by HerpDerpLerp »

aklemm wrote: post #49
HerpDerpLerp wrote: post #4

Hmm well I don't want to hear what a nightmare my colleagues lives are. I ask "How was the weekend" you say "Fine". I don't care that your house burned down. Yep I am a brit!

Hate to pile on, but you might be the insufferable one.

I don't doubt it :)

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#99

Post by runeks »

avindroth wrote: post #26
runeks wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't understand how to employ false smiles as needed, you won't get very far in life. How do we measure how far we've come in life? Relative to what is this distance measured?

This question is only asked by those who cannot measure how far they have come. We all have our subjective distances. But if you are a human being, some combinations of the following will be that distance: 1. Sustenance (food, water, housing, money) 2. Community (belonging, love) 3, Self-expression 4. Self-transcendence (altruism) This is a gross simplification of Maslow, but give me some slack. If you question every…

    > Spend that time trying to measure how far you have come.
Why? Who is the intended recipient of this information, once I have formulated it into words? Myself? I don't enjoy repeating things to myself I already know.

Formulating into words how far you've come can only happen while you know how far you've come. And while you're in the state of knowing how far you've come, you don't need to repeat to yourself how far this is. You know.

Re: Why It Doesn't Pay to Be a People Pleaser

#100

Post by ikeyany »

w1ntermute wrote: post #10
divbit wrote: post #2

> Live with total integrity. Be transparent, honest, and authentic. Do not ever waiver from this; white lies and false smiles quickly snowball into a life lived out of alignment. Words to live by

Not at all. If you don't understand how to employ false smiles as needed, you won't get very far in life. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made when I was young. Once I learned how to stop being totally honest and how to be friendly to even those I didn't like, a lot of opportunities opened up that I would have never been exposed to otherwise. Simple example: I maintain friendships with people I don't genuinely…

> I maintain friendships with people I don't genuinely like

That's not friendship. That's an acquaintance you're using for ulterior motives.

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