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Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#91

Post by GeorgeHahn »

dingo_bat wrote: post #79
supernovae wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THis makes no sense.. Most people don't comprehend that it's not just bash, its the entire Ubuntu user space. You can run Ubuntu apps just by running apt-get. VI, Ruby, Golang, Rust. You can set Bash as your debug shell in VS Code, you can have all your familiar SSH keys/forwarding/scp tools.. Of course there is a ton of windows native stuff, but in essence this makes Linux native so now you have just that much more.

>You can run Ubuntu apps just by running apt-get. VI, Ruby, Golang, Rust But I already have vim, ruby, golang and rust natively on Windows. I agree it's cool. But still pointless. >You can set Bash as your debug shell in VS Code, you can have all your familiar SSH keys/forwarding/scp tools. I can install vscode on Linux directly. And again, ssh, scp, etc is already there on Windows.

I think many of us who use Windows take for granted the number of tools we use to cover over our pain points.

I use Msys2, Cmder, a bunch of custom tool builds, and some Powershell scripts. This setup works great; I'm productive with it and my command line feels fantastic. However, I have been tweaking my setup for years. WSL makes all of that learning, setup, and tweaking unnecessary.

All of your tools are available out of the box, and you don't have to configure anything, hunt down binaries, or make your own builds.

This isn't about making you and I more comfortable - we already are. This is about making it easier for other devs to find a happy setup on Windows.

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#92

Post by gremlinsinc »

SwellJoe wrote: post #23
gremlinsinc wrote: post #7

I'd rather a linux sub sys for windows -- gamers on linux would flock to it, wine sux. There's some nice windows apps, and niche things built only on windows -- but I've staying on Ubuntu most likely.

I don't think that's fair to Wine. It is tackling a huge problem space, without a specification or source to work with. They're reverse engineering vast swaths of Windows. I think Wine works remarkably well given the size and scope of the project, and the nature of Windows being a huge moving target. Steam has so many games for Linux now, and a lot of that is due to Wine having advanced to the point where porting to…

I'm just saying WOW is buggy on linux wine, etc.. -- I think if windows officially had their own wine-alternative with proprietary drivers, dlls, etc--it would open a whole new world of cross-platform use.

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#93

Post by rodgerd »

SwellJoe wrote: post #69
rodgerd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The modern Linux desktop is every bit as good as Windows (and Mac OS), IMHO The politest thing that I can say about that is "there's no accounting for taste".

I'm curious if you've used a recent Gnome 3 desktop? I used Fedora 23 on my previous laptop and will be installing 24 on this new one. It's a truly excellent desktop experience, in my opinion. I think it's everything I want from a desktop environment: Reliable, gets out of the way, looks gorgeous and consistent across all of the apps I use (I mention consistency because my terminal in Windows, a variant of ConEmu, lo…

> I'm curious if you've used a recent Gnome 3 desktop?

Yes. I have such unreasonable demands as thinking that, say, minimising windows might work the way I'd expect on every other OS, or that the extension API might remain stable across ostensibly minor releases, or that features don't disappear on a whim. I would like my desktop to feel like a desktop, and not like a tablet.

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#94

Post by [deleted] »

SwellJoe wrote: post #20
sdegutis wrote: post #4

ELI5: What does this mean to me, as a developer who's really familiar with (and prefers) Linux, but has to use Windows? What cool possibilities will this "Linux Subsystem For Windows" open up to me? What things will it specifically not open up to me?

I've been primarily a Linux user since 1995, and have been using Windows 10+WSL for the past week or so, since getting a new laptop. The only thing I can think of that it'll open up for you is if you want to develop for Windows, while still having Linux available to you. Whether that's for developing games (most of the good game development tools run only on Windows, even if they can deploy to Linux/Mac/Android), or…

[deleted]

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#95

Post by SwellJoe »

rodgerd wrote: post #93
SwellJoe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if you've used a recent Gnome 3 desktop? I used Fedora 23 on my previous laptop and will be installing 24 on this new one. It's a truly excellent desktop experience, in my opinion. I think it's everything I want from a desktop environment: Reliable, gets out of the way, looks gorgeous and consistent across all of the apps I use (I mention consistency because my terminal in Windows, a variant of ConEmu, lo…

> I'm curious if you've used a recent Gnome 3 desktop? Yes. I have such unreasonable demands as thinking that, say, minimising windows might work the way I'd expect on every other OS, or that the extension API might remain stable across ostensibly minor releases, or that features don't disappear on a whim. I would like my desktop to feel like a desktop, and not like a tablet.

"I would like my desktop to feel like a desktop, and not like a tablet."

So, you don't like Windows 10, either, I guess?

I find it to be even more insistently tablet-like than Gnome (which I agree has some elements I previously only associated with Android, and I was slow to adapt, but I've come to be very comfortable with it). My new laptop has a touchscreen, which is a thing I didn't want...but it was the only way to get a 4k screen, so I have it, and I've even come to like it. My habits are evolving slowly, and it'll probably be a year or two before I even remember to touch the screen more than a few times a day, but I think the evolution is a positive one. That said, in the "cons" of having a tablet-like interface, Windows 10 has a "feature" that makes your start menu different every time you open it, which I find very difficult to use (I have to start typing to find anything always). That's just awful. But, I think I would hate it on a tablet, too.

For the other stuff, I kinda like the minimize behavior (but never use minimize...I use virtual desktops to determine what's in and out of view), I think the extensions API has been stabilized for a year or two now. Gnome 3 shipped in some distros when it was not ready (even though they were calling it stable, it wasn't), but it's firmed up a lot. Now, they're mostly doing incremental improvements. Each time I upgrade now (and I've been using Gnome 3 since it first shipped with Fedora) the surprises are small and pleasant (of the form "Oh, that looks nice!").

In short, I agree with some of your criticisms...but, only when applied to Gnome 3 of a year or two or three ago.

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#96

Post by jscholes »

MichaelGG wrote: post #56
sdegutis wrote: post #4

ELI5: What does this mean to me, as a developer who's really familiar with (and prefers) Linux, but has to use Windows? What cool possibilities will this "Linux Subsystem For Windows" open up to me? What things will it specifically not open up to me?

If I can figure out if W10 can turn off its spyware, it'll allow me to ditch VMware for most use cases. Since you can run a Windows X server, I can use graphical emacs. If perf is good enough, I'll run a whole WM like XMonad and use Firefox and stuff inside it.

> If perf is good enough, I'll run a whole WM like XMonad and use Firefox and stuff inside it.

What advantages would this give you over running Firefox natively on Windows?

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#97

Post by jscholes »

SwellJoe wrote: post #20
sdegutis wrote: post #4

ELI5: What does this mean to me, as a developer who's really familiar with (and prefers) Linux, but has to use Windows? What cool possibilities will this "Linux Subsystem For Windows" open up to me? What things will it specifically not open up to me?

I've been primarily a Linux user since 1995, and have been using Windows 10+WSL for the past week or so, since getting a new laptop. The only thing I can think of that it'll open up for you is if you want to develop for Windows, while still having Linux available to you. Whether that's for developing games (most of the good game development tools run only on Windows, even if they can deploy to Linux/Mac/Android), or…

> though I'd be willing to bet accessibility is still better on Windows.

You honestly have no idea how much. Desktop accessibility in Linux, at least for me as a screen reader user, is a joke.

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#98

Post by mwcampbell »

jscholes wrote: post #97
SwellJoe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been primarily a Linux user since 1995, and have been using Windows 10+WSL for the past week or so, since getting a new laptop. The only thing I can think of that it'll open up for you is if you want to develop for Windows, while still having Linux available to you. Whether that's for developing games (most of the good game development tools run only on Windows, even if they can deploy to Linux/Mac/Android), or…

> though I'd be willing to bet accessibility is still better on Windows. You honestly have no idea how much. Desktop accessibility in Linux, at least for me as a screen reader user, is a joke.

What issues did you have? Also, what distribution and desktop environment did you use? I know a blind programmer who uses Fedora with GNOME 3 as his primary OS.

Re: Fun with the Windows Subsystem for Linux

#99

Post by SwellJoe »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #92
SwellJoe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's fair to Wine. It is tackling a huge problem space, without a specification or source to work with. They're reverse engineering vast swaths of Windows. I think Wine works remarkably well given the size and scope of the project, and the nature of Windows being a huge moving target. Steam has so many games for Linux now, and a lot of that is due to Wine having advanced to the point where porting to…

I'm just saying WOW is buggy on linux wine, etc.. -- I think if windows officially had their own wine-alternative with proprietary drivers, dlls, etc--it would open a whole new world of cross-platform use.

WSL is also buggy as hell, so there's that. It's seemingly a hard problem either direction, but I think probably harder for Wine.
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