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The H-Bombs in Turkey

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Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#91

Post by the_watcher »

cm3 wrote: post #28

While Turkey has conflicts with some groups who want to grab part of the land or overthrow the government, they are FWIW a useful ally in the region because they have mostly-friendly dealings with UAE, Saudis, Iran, parts of Africa and also Israel. The degree of diplomacy varies, but there aren't many NATO members in that region who are as compatible when it comes to diplomatic ties with the region's powers. Russia,…

Turkey has the same advantages now that caused it to be the arguable center of the Western world for parts of the previous several centuries: it's simply wildly well-placed, geopolitically. Russia needs at least the presence of a relationship given its never-ending pursuit for warm water ports. Europe realizes that, as the sole overland route to the Middle East (and by extension, all of Asia) without going through Russia, that Turkey is key to both the economic and territorial security of the continent. The Middle Eastern nations recognize that Turkey is a nation with enough Islam in its identity that they are more able to sell their populaces on explicit cooperation, and due to Turkey's importance geopolitically, can be a convenient partner that allows them some interaction with the West (that doesn't need to be sold or hidden to their population). Finally, so long as the US continues to have ambitions in the Middle East or in counterbalancing against Russia, Turkey will remain important because of all of the previously listed reasons.

Once you start paying attention to geopolitics, it becomes fascinating. It helps explain a huge slice of Russian behavior that seems far less logical at first glance, as well as why certain parts of the world seem to be perennial hotbeds of conflict, no matter the prevailing rulers or ideologies.

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#92

Post by jacquesm »

sargun wrote: post #79
mikeash wrote: post #26

I'm skeptical that the PALs are as easy to bypass as this article says. It's possible that the arming code includes critical information necessary to properly detonate the bomb, such as timing info for firing the various detonators. Even if it doesn't, the critical PAL hardware is deep inside the bomb, requiring the bomb to be disassembled to get to it, then reassembled afterwards, and that's not quite as easy as swa…

So, the PALs can be completely disabled at the pull of a plunger. This plunger takes There is also a tamper-resistant membrane that prevents individuals from getting to the fissile material, and nuclear payload. This could render the bombs likely free of design information. In fact, it turns out these bombs have a ton of conventional explosives inside of them as well and adjusting the timing could make harvesting the…

Interesting reading. Thank you for posting that.

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#93

Post by bjornsing »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #34
jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey has the largest standing army in the region. 600K or so. Those 2000 troops wouldn't last long enough to get the weapons out.

I think you're vastly underestimating 1st world intelligence capabilities. By the time anyone is brainstorming how exactly they want to take the base the big players in NATO already have guys sitting in jets idling on the taxiway, an aircraft carrier is taking a hard turn into the wind and an aide is popping popcorn and cracking a beer so Mr. Putin can enjoy the spectacle. When nukes are involved things get taken ver…

Really? Doesn't the following section from the OP directly contradict that view: "In 2010, peace activists climbed over a fence at the Kleine Brogel Airbase, in Belgium, cut through a second fence, entered a hardened shelter containing nuclear-weapon vaults, placed anti-nuclear stickers on the walls, wandered the base for an hour, and posted a video of the intrusion on YouTube. The video showed that the Belgian soldier who finally confronted them was carrying an unloaded rifle."

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#94

Post by rrggrr »

cm3 wrote: post #28

While Turkey has conflicts with some groups who want to grab part of the land or overthrow the government, they are FWIW a useful ally in the region because they have mostly-friendly dealings with UAE, Saudis, Iran, parts of Africa and also Israel. The degree of diplomacy varies, but there aren't many NATO members in that region who are as compatible when it comes to diplomatic ties with the region's powers. Russia,…

Turkey has not been a particularly useful US ally in the region in several decades and it won't be again, perhaps ever. The continued decline of US, Saudi and Russian influence in the Middle East is an irreversible trend, and Turkey is configuring itself to become a leader in the future of the region, both in cooperation and competition with Iran. I think its time for the US to depart Turkey, H-bombs and all, and stop clinging to delusions of power and influence that no longer exist and which face continued decline.

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#95

Post by justin66 »

vonmoltke wrote: post #66
sdenton4 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that many nuclear bombs had arming mechanisms that required special electronics in the plane. Is that not true for the b61?

The B61 is designed to be delivered from any aircraft that can carry Mark 80-series iron bombs. Combined with the two-man rule (which means at least partial arming on the ground for a weapon launched from a single-seat aircraft), this means most of the setup needs to be done on the ground. It may be that the weapon is completely armed at that point, save for a failsafe tied to the rack that keeps the bomb from going…

> It may be that the weapon is completely armed at that point, save for a failsafe tied to the rack that keeps the bomb from going off when still attached to the aircraft.

Weird. This would make these modern weapons a lot less safe than some of the bombs we've lost (without catastrophe) in B-52 incidents over the years.

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#96

Post by dom1n0 »

valarauca1 wrote: post #53
Shivetya wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F15s, F16s, and many aircraft that the Navy uses. Still I would think that its high time to get them out of Turkey with the stability of the region in question, let alone the debate on whether or not the coup was staged

>let alone the debate on whether or not the coup was staged I don't understand why you are being downvoted for this. A decent number of military analysist and Turkish civilians have come to this conclusion. -No government buildings were seized, only bridges and airports. -Normally within the first 30 minutes of a coup a Turkish Military General was on TV directly addressing civilians as to why this had taken place, a…

"Saying the Turkish military is incompetent is really damning to the whole of NATO."

A determined invader could probably take Europe in 48 hours. The Cold War days of preparedness are gone; just witness the commitment of EU NATO members to ME conflicts; the lack of preparedness in Nice. The train has already begun derailing, one carriage at a time.

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#97

Post by valarauca1 »

dom1n0 wrote: post #96
valarauca1 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>let alone the debate on whether or not the coup was staged I don't understand why you are being downvoted for this. A decent number of military analysist and Turkish civilians have come to this conclusion. -No government buildings were seized, only bridges and airports. -Normally within the first 30 minutes of a coup a Turkish Military General was on TV directly addressing civilians as to why this had taken place, a…

"Saying the Turkish military is incompetent is really damning to the whole of NATO." A determined invader could probably take Europe in 48 hours. The Cold War days of preparedness are gone; just witness the commitment of EU NATO members to ME conflicts; the lack of preparedness in Nice. The train has already begun derailing, one carriage at a time.

> the lack of preparedness in Nice

There is no way you can pin this on NATO unless you whole-heartly support a military police state.

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#98

Post by Nokinside »

mikeash wrote: post #26

I'm skeptical that the PALs are as easy to bypass as this article says. It's possible that the arming code includes critical information necessary to properly detonate the bomb, such as timing info for firing the various detonators. Even if it doesn't, the critical PAL hardware is deep inside the bomb, requiring the bomb to be disassembled to get to it, then reassembled afterwards, and that's not quite as easy as swa…

B61 bombs have command disable mechanism. It can be rendered permanently unusable just by entering 3-digit code and pulling a handle.

It's also possible to encode the required code physically into the explosives by mixing high and slow explosives randomly in each bomb. PAL code is then needed to adjust the timing of the detonators so that detonation front is symmetrical. Even if you bypass all the electronics, it's impossible to guess the timing without the code.

Re: The H-Bombs in Turkey

#100

Post by jsprogrammer »

goodplay wrote: post #51
cloakandswagger wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it should be a simple as expiring whatever API key the jets use to communicate back to the US-based control servers. So when it POSTs to a StartEngine endpoint or whatever, it wouldn't start.

Lol. No government would buy unreliable weapons.

No government could guarantee the reliability of purchased weapons. It is already known and been demonstrated that sabotaged arms will be bought.
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