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Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

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Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#91

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jimmywanger wrote: post #85
peterbonney wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think that one factor is that in the Chinese culture, you don't expect everything to be good and available during all seasons." I don't think that's a cultural thing, and certainly not an ethnic thing. I think it might have something to do with how many generations-removed one is from agrarian life (or close physical/logistical proximity to it)... Growing up in my (very white) hometown in New England, which still…

I don't think it's an ethnic thing. But I definitely think it's a cultural thing. I agree with you about how many generations-removed you are from food production. Rather, how many steps/middlemen you're used to. For example: China is still a developing country with a generally low per capita income. You're intimately familiar with the seasons, and what's available when, and what it takes to get your food. Few can af…

This is almost right...but the western style supermarkets in China like bgh are still very Chinese. A lot of produce comes shrink wrapped, which is something I have never seen in the states before! And it is annoying, because they will hide wilted leaves under good ones...damn it. In general, I find shopping for veggies in China nerve wracking, and it's mostly my Chinese wife doing the picking while I'm just waiting and waiting...

Wet markets are no better...often there is no place to get good cabbage, at least nowhere near my house, and we have to use something else that we could find in decent condition.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#92

Post by [deleted] »

jimmywanger wrote: post #85
peterbonney wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think that one factor is that in the Chinese culture, you don't expect everything to be good and available during all seasons." I don't think that's a cultural thing, and certainly not an ethnic thing. I think it might have something to do with how many generations-removed one is from agrarian life (or close physical/logistical proximity to it)... Growing up in my (very white) hometown in New England, which still…

I don't think it's an ethnic thing. But I definitely think it's a cultural thing. I agree with you about how many generations-removed you are from food production. Rather, how many steps/middlemen you're used to. For example: China is still a developing country with a generally low per capita income. You're intimately familiar with the seasons, and what's available when, and what it takes to get your food. Few can af…

[deleted]

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#93

Post by akiselev »

sukilot wrote: post #88
akiselev wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices…

Trade Joe's entire reason for existence is that most of their stuff, both packages and produce. is cheaper than other area stores. There are a private label store.

Do you have a source on that? Other than a few staples (broth, grains, sauces, eggs, milk, etc) my local Trader Joes stores are definitely not cheaper than their local competitors, especially not the ethnic markets a few miles away. Their website marketing copy says so in a roundabout way but I shop at several Trader Joes flagship stores (including the original in Pasadena and the massive ones in south Florida) and that hasn't been true for at least a decade for produce. Their frozen foods like pizza and whatnot seem equivalent but definitely not their produce (20 cents a bannana!?)

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#94

Post by ceejayoz »

akiselev wrote: post #84
ceejayoz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do these markets avoid food poisoning their customers? If you buy veggies, it's on you to wash them. If you buy prepared food that includes veggies, it's on the vendor to wash them.

Bacteria can't be effectively washed off with water, which is why we use chemical abrasives and surfactants like toothpaste and soap when brushing our teeth or washing our hands. I don't know anyone who uses dish soap on their lettuce and grocery store outbreaks of food borne illness are a regular occurence, just not as sensationalized as the outbreaks at national fast food chains.

The FDA recommends running water (http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparency/Basics/ucm194327.ht...) - it won't get rid of 100%, but it definitely reduces bacterial load (https://extension.umaine.edu/publications/4336e/).

Teeth are different - they spend 24/7 in a great environment for bacterial growth (warm, wet, and with frequent bursts of sugar/nutrients).

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#95

Post by ceejayoz »

zem wrote: post #86
akiselev wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bacteria can't be effectively washed off with water, which is why we use chemical abrasives and surfactants like toothpaste and soap when brushing our teeth or washing our hands. I don't know anyone who uses dish soap on their lettuce and grocery store outbreaks of food borne illness are a regular occurence, just not as sensationalized as the outbreaks at national fast food chains.

my grandmother would always wash fresh vegetables in a potassium permanganate solution. i guess the practice declined as food was increasingly perceived to be safe

http://modernfarmer.com/2015/01/7-myths-washing-produce/

> Fruit and vegetable washes claim to kill more bacteria, but studies from the University of Maine have shown that tap water does as good a job or better. When produce is rinsed thoroughly, water can remove 98 percent of bacteria.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#96

Post by zaroth »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90
throwaway_bob wrote: post #63

I lived on henry street for a while, and I can't say that I know anything about the back end of the distribution network, but I can say this article is missing a lot of things about the front end. The produce is cheaper than a standard western store, but the quality is much more varied. Moreover, the market (in the economic sense) seems really efficient. If you see something cheap in Manhattan chinatown in every stor…

And this describes grocery shopping in China, not just Chinatown. I look forward to the day I can just go to a western supermarket and not have to worry about getting jipped on veggies...save so much work even if they cost a lot more money.

You won't have to worry, you can rest assured you are absolutely getting jipped!

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#97

Post by fennecfoxen »

perseusprime11 wrote: post #68

On the flip side, whenever I go to local farms, I find the prices to be high. I am not sure why this happens. For example, a pound of tomatoes just the other day at a local farm was $5.99 and my local Whole Foods was selling organic tomatoes for $2.99. I also can never seem to find organic produce from local farms.

At a guess, your local farm is engaging in price discrimination. If you care enough about "buy local" to drive out to the farm to buy the vegetables, chances are they can charge you more.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#98

Post by danramteke »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90
throwaway_bob wrote: post #63

I lived on henry street for a while, and I can't say that I know anything about the back end of the distribution network, but I can say this article is missing a lot of things about the front end. The produce is cheaper than a standard western store, but the quality is much more varied. Moreover, the market (in the economic sense) seems really efficient. If you see something cheap in Manhattan chinatown in every stor…

And this describes grocery shopping in China, not just Chinatown. I look forward to the day I can just go to a western supermarket and not have to worry about getting jipped on veggies...save so much work even if they cost a lot more money.

Is there away to say your meaning, but without the ethnic slur for being cheated financially?

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#99

Post by JabavuAdams »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90
throwaway_bob wrote: post #63

I lived on henry street for a while, and I can't say that I know anything about the back end of the distribution network, but I can say this article is missing a lot of things about the front end. The produce is cheaper than a standard western store, but the quality is much more varied. Moreover, the market (in the economic sense) seems really efficient. If you see something cheap in Manhattan chinatown in every stor…

And this describes grocery shopping in China, not just Chinatown. I look forward to the day I can just go to a western supermarket and not have to worry about getting jipped on veggies...save so much work even if they cost a lot more money.

FYI "jipped" is actually spelled "gypped", which is a slur against Gypsies. I only raise this because I used to say it a lot, and was unaware of its etymology and connotations.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#100

Post by fennecfoxen »

whybroke wrote: post #23
kelukelugames wrote: post #16

This is the snob effect. People like the author believe produce is cheaper because of poor quality. Does Chinatown respond by lowering prices further because people won't buy poor quality produce? If it weren't for prejudice then Chinatown groceries might price for more profit. The customers are missing out too. Marketing can fix this.

Or their prices are lower because their customers, being aware of overseas prices, are more sophisticated about pricing than a typical US shoppers and so the vendors can't get any with absurdly inflated prices. I say this because I spent a dozen years living in southern Europe where, not only are all food prices lower, (eg a loaf of bread is often 1/10 what it is in the states and American brand boxed cereal and Cali…

> there are product differences that reduce prices but not quality (eg eggs and milk that don't require refrigeration, vastly less packaging, few advertisements)

Being aware of products on sale for cheaper does not help if they're on another continent. (Given that the EU is basically an agricultural-subsidy league, it's not surprising to see produce for cheaper, either, though it depends on local wages as well.)

But the real thing which drives down the prices isn't just savvy, it's that these customers care about the price and are wiling to go to additional efforts to pay less, whether by shopping at a less-traditional or inconvenient place, or by using coupons. Meanwhile the rich-white-single-programmer happily cruises down to a nearby Whole Foods because he really doesn't care about an extra few dollars on his grocery bill; he even buys the pre-sliced fresh fruit as a convenience.

With regards to milk, note that you can find boxed milk in the US (UHT milk, or even milk powder)... it's just not as common, and culturally is regarded as an inferior good. As for eggs, you'll have to blame the USDA for the mandate that they are washed before shipment (as opposed to by the customer).

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