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Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

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Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#91

I relocated to Toronto SPECIFICALLY to work for Joist, exactly one week ago. I was laid off along with everyone else within 6 days of working for them! Prior to that I was working in the USA for a few years; I'm now in a position where I have to figure out next steps with regards to my career :/ I'm still unsure why they hired me and brought me down here? I'm also hoping that they pay me for my time there (I worked m…

That is extremely shitty, and the people in charge should be shamed. They had to have known this was coming far before you starting there. For them to continue with that, knowing the position it would leave you in, solidifies the idea that those in charge are awful people.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#92
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. If you're in San Francisco you can hire from any major metropolitan area in North America, and probably the world. Relocation tends not to be that big of an issue - it's Silicon Valley, there's tremendous opportunity. It's not just that the "talent" is already in SF, it's that the talent from all over the world is drawn to the Valley by brand recognition alone.

I disagree, I know a lot of people who reluctantly moved to the Bay Area for salary who would rather be elsewhere. The Bay Area appeals to some people, but not everybody (also, hey Keith :))

Yeah, but the question here isn't "Bay Area" v "Everywhere Else", it's "Bay Area" v "Toronto". Toronto has lower salaries, colder weather, and generally fewer investors that are more risk-averse (which puts companies there at more risk existentially, especially in early stages). It's a beautiful city, I love Toronto, I was born and grew up there. But there's a lot of work to be done to make it competitive with the Bay Area.

The saving grace is this: I imagine the counterintuitive first step of continuing to bolster Toronto's tech scene is actually efflux of talent towards the Bay Area. The few who do "strike oil" in SV are more likely to direct some of that capital back home, make bigger bets, and mentor entrepreneurs there.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#94

Why don't they just open a US office and get their "senior talent" there, if it's that easy to hire them in SV? And if it is easier, why would they cost more in SV? Maybe because there's competition? Also, it's a bit of a cliche that you need the best people to be successful. Organisation is far more important. That other cliche that the team is more than the sum of its parts is far more true. I moved abroad with a v…

Investors want access to the founders, and so they have to be in SF.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#95
post #76

I relocated to Toronto SPECIFICALLY to work for Joist, exactly one week ago. I was laid off along with everyone else within 6 days of working for them! Prior to that I was working in the USA for a few years; I'm now in a position where I have to figure out next steps with regards to my career :/ I'm still unsure why they hired me and brought me down here? I'm also hoping that they pay me for my time there (I worked m…

Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company. There's lots of jobs here for developers, and it's just a great city (imho). I posted below, but the company I work for is hiring in Toronto and the pay is pretty good for this city.

> Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company

What do you think the company should do? It's a company not a person who left their spouse when they got cancer. They are doing what they feel they should do in order to thrive and survive.

Now you can argue that you think they are wrong, that is that they don't need to move. But then again you won't suffer the downside of the wrong decision. They will. Companies do what companies have to do in order to grow the business based on how they interpret the facts. That is what joist has done.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#96
post #95
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company. There's lots of jobs here for developers, and it's just a great city (imho). I posted below, but the company I work for is hiring in Toronto and the pay is pretty good for this city.

> Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company What do you think the company should do? It's a company not a person who left their spouse when they got cancer. They are doing what they feel they should do in order to thrive and survive. Now you can argue that you think they are wrong, that is that they don't need to move. But then again you won't suffer the downside of the wrong decision. They will. Compan…

If you're considering laying off 2/3rds of your staff and relocating the remainder to another country, maybe you shouldn't be actively hiring. They didn't come up with this idea last week.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#97
post #95
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company. There's lots of jobs here for developers, and it's just a great city (imho). I posted below, but the company I work for is hiring in Toronto and the pay is pretty good for this city.

> Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company What do you think the company should do? It's a company not a person who left their spouse when they got cancer. They are doing what they feel they should do in order to thrive and survive. Now you can argue that you think they are wrong, that is that they don't need to move. But then again you won't suffer the downside of the wrong decision. They will. Compan…

From the other comments in the linked article, it looks like they hired more than one person that relocated from another city and were let go in I agree with you that it's a business and they are always doing what's in their best interest which they have every right to do. I think even with that in mind, this could have been handled a bit differently to avoid really sticking it to some people.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#98
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I know a lot of people who reluctantly moved to the Bay Area for salary who would rather be elsewhere. The Bay Area appeals to some people, but not everybody (also, hey Keith :))

Yeah, but the question here isn't "Bay Area" v "Everywhere Else", it's "Bay Area" v "Toronto". Toronto has lower salaries, colder weather, and generally fewer investors that are more risk-averse (which puts companies there at more risk existentially, especially in early stages). It's a beautiful city, I love Toronto, I was born and grew up there. But there's a lot of work to be done to make it competitive with the Ba…

Of course, your first qualm (lower salaries) was exactly what the comment said to remove by providing SF "senior-level talent" salaries. USD-converted rates and all. Quality of life in Toronto with those salaries would be excellent, and I think it would attract a lot of talent.

Though you're right - the cold did drive me away.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#99
post #78
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is a country, not a dear friend. Workers and companies owe nothing to it. If it makes more sense for someone to leave, then more power to them. Canada can either try to make itself more appealing or deal with people leaving.

Re: "owe nothing to it", I respectfully disagree. Canadians at Waterloo enjoy a heavily subsidized world-class education, at the tax-payer's expense, then leave to contribute nothing to the economy that produced them. Interestingly, some also come back later in life to enjoy subsidized health care to which they've also never contributed. I wonder if there's a way to structure post-secondary education subsidies as a s…

> Canadians at Waterloo enjoy a heavily subsidized world-class education, at the tax-payer's expense, then leave to contribute nothing to the economy that produced them.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. Even foreign students who have no intention of remaining in Canada after university are still adding value.

Why? Because when they go abroad and do good work, they maintain and improve the image of UW. There's a reason it became a world class school, and you can think of former students doing work abroad as sort of like advertising.

Besides, foreign students pay more. Their tuition is not nearly as cheap as that of domestic students.

> Interestingly, some also come back later in life to enjoy subsidized health care to which they've also never contributed.

This is the case in many countries on earth which engage in socialism.

> I wonder if there's a way to structure post-secondary education subsidies as a sort of debt that you can pay off by either remaining employed in Canada, or in cash if you decide to leave.

That would suck, quite frankly. I'm a Canadian who moved abroad after university because I wanted to gain some perspective and see more of the world.

I'm not a resident of Canada currently, so you're saying I should be saddled with additional debt because I left Canada without contributing to the economy?

Why shouldn't education be a right? I had to pay for my education, as I assume you did. Yes, it was subsidized by tax payer money, but in the end I spent ~$35,000 CAD (total) on tuition for my B.Eng.

I had to work summers and internships to pay for my tuition, and housing expenses when I was in university.

Will I return to Canada? I don't know, maybe. I'm still having a blast working abroad, and I'm still in my 20s, so who knows what will happen.

What I can say though, is I'm really glad that Canada didn't charge me an additional tax for going abroad after my education. If I had any kind of significant debt, I wouldn't have been able to afford to move to Europe and look for work.

(I am not a UW grad)

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#100
post #31
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it different than Amazon Seattle? I mean, is there a reasonable balance between work and life?

At least on my floor most people leave at around 6.

Do they leave work at that time, or do they just go to work at home?
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