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Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

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Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#91

Post by shazow »

clutchski wrote: post #4

"Toronto is already home to a number of successful venture-backed businesses, such as Shopify, KIK, ..." Fact check time. Shopify's headquarters is in Ottawa. Kik is in Waterloo.

While we're at it, a bunch of YC companies are headquartered or have an office there like Appcanary, Upverter, PagerDuty. Big tech companies have offices there too, like Mozilla and Google (mostly sales in Toronto for now, eng in Waterloo). Lots of small bootstrapped tech startups, consultancies, and agencies, too—like the famous Teehan+Lax agency that got bought by Facebook. This is just from the top of my head, I'd love to see a more comprehensive list.

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#92

Post by goatforce5 »

jacques_chester wrote: post #46
superplussed wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is harder about Canadian immigration? I'd always had the impression the U.S. made things more difficult.

I'm Australian. We have a special visa, the E3, which is very easy to get. Meanwhile almost everyone else is stuck in the H1B shitshow, which has in the past 5 years grown from merely "terrible" to "nuclear-powered self-propelling toxic thunderblob".

Does the E3 still have the "if you lose your job you have 2 weeks to leave the country" clause on it?

It had me on edge the whole time I was in the States (which funnily enough prompted me to find a job in Toronto).

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#93

Post by oniTony »

arez wrote: post #87
lcc wrote: post #80

Not if Toronto keeps hemorrhaging talent. I graduated from the University of Toronto last year and can only name 2 of my classmates who are actually working in Toronto now. The rest are in SF, Seattle, and NYC - including many people who have family in Toronto, like me. All of my friends who were seriously working on a startup have moved it to the Bay Area. Many of us would love to move back to Toronto 'eventually',…

do you get a green card easier as a canadian than people from europe for example? I'm from germany and know many people who would like to work in the states, but it's really a big problem to get the green card. It takes companies much effort and money to get you in the states for more than 3 months.

Canadians get access to TN class work visa. It's meant for temporary work, but gives a few years to figure out a more permanent approach.

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#94

Post by AlexC04 »

jt2190 wrote: post #75
AlexC04 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the pay here in Toronto is much lower, even when you account for cost of living vs. San Fran. One consideration that offsets that is medical insurance. If your health care is not fully covered by your employer. I ran some numbers once and the "rent difference" was roughly $3k (typical 1 - 2 bedroom apartment at $4k vs. The roughly $1k I spend) and the platinum medical looking like roughly $500/mo Add in a car,…

Taxes? Canadians jump very quickly into the highest tax brackets. Goods and Services are taxed in Ontario at... 14% now?

Perhaps surprisingly, that's mostly a wash.

Canadian federal tax is 33% over 200k USA is 33% over 189K

Ontario taxes 11.16% up to 500k California 9.3% up to 250k

... Ok so realistically 2% in taxes :). Maybe that's not a total wash.

But if we're looking at the break-even point it might hit $3k in California's favor

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#95

Post by jessriedel »

robertelder wrote: post #29
jessriedel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are local projects (Waterloo/Kitchener/Cambridge), right? Are they actually planning on improving the very slow and intermittent rail connection to Toronto?

Yes, these are local projects, but with the amount of chaos they're creating with construction, I'm willing to believe that once it's finished they'll make much more frequent trips to Toronto. I believe there would be demand for it as the King/Victoria area is changing rapidly. Google just took over a building that was an old derelict factory with broken windows 2 years ago. This building is within feet of the propos…

OK, so they might have a few more frequent trips, but the train itself still takes an hour and a half. And even if you assume this horrendous construction makes traveling within the KW region magically fast, you're still talking a 1 hour 45 minutes commute, each way.

I think Toronto will still be pretty far away.

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#96

Post by clessg »

oniTony wrote: post #93
arez wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you get a green card easier as a canadian than people from europe for example? I'm from germany and know many people who would like to work in the states, but it's really a big problem to get the green card. It takes companies much effort and money to get you in the states for more than 3 months.

Canadians get access to TN class work visa. It's meant for temporary work, but gives a few years to figure out a more permanent approach.

What would a more permanent approach be? Marriage?

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#97

Post by chawco »

vigilant wrote: post #61
chawco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. Toronto is a great city. I've traveled a good deal in Canada, and the US, and while I can't compare it to cities outside of those two, I will say that I still consider the best city I've ever experienced. While the tech scene isn't as hot as the other regions you mentioned, it's still strong. Very strong. It's also starting to be noticed by the bigger players (with Google and Apple both investing in the region…

I do love Canada, but New York City has nearly all of those same positives which you list (other than universal health care), to an even greater extent. And you can get bay-area level salaries there (as opposed to Toronto, where your salary is half what it would be in the bay area)

I spent a good deal of time in New York when I was younger -- in Manhattan working for an investment bank in technology. I didn't really explore the other boroughs much, but I did stay in the city for an extended period of time (~6 months in one go). I've also spent a good deal of time in the bay area (San Francisco), so the point where I spent more than half of my time there as opposed to here in Toronto. All of that is to say, I'm making a very conscious comparison between the options.

As far as New York goes, I'd argue it's less liveable than Toronto (or at least it was nearly 10 years go). It's much, much more expensive, much busier (obviously), and probably has the best amenities of any big city anywhere in the world. That being said, I'd also argue that it's less cosmopolitan than Toronto. New York is among the most cosmopolitan cities in the world of course, but I think Toronto beats it. I could be convinced otherwise, but in my experience Toronto is simply the best with respect to diversity, interesting people interacting and getting along, and being a fantastic mix of cultures from literally all over the globe.

Then there's the expense -- the likelihood of me being able to own a 3 bedroom house in Manhattan doing what I currently do is zero. It just isn't happening. In Toronto I live only about 3km from the financial district, and I can get to my office in an Uber in under 10 minutes. I'm at an age where I'm starting a family, and I live in a very family friendly urban area -- there's even an elementary school on my street.

And yes, bay area level salaries are hard to come by here -- I was earning one when the exchange rate was closer to parity a few years back, and subsequent pay adjustments have not kept up with the weakness of the Canadian dollar since the collapse of the oil market. The salaries are lower, but they're nowhere near half. And that's fine, as I'm still paid very well, and my standard of living is unobtainable in New York or San Francisco without earning substantially above market rates in either market.

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#98

Post by RBO2 »

minwcnt5 wrote: post #69
falsestprophet wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto is the seventh largest metro area in North America. 2/3 the size of Chicago. About the same size as Washington and Philadelphia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metro...

REALLY strange choice of data point for Toronto -- it uses a much smaller land area than for the US cities. Greater Toronto Area - 7,124 km^2 Chicago Metro Area - 28,120 km^2 Houston Metro Area - 26,061 km^2 Dallas-Fort Worth - 24,059 km^2 Washington Metro - 14,412 km^2 Philadelphia Metro - 13,256 km^2 A much more apples-to-apples comparison would be the Golden Horseshoe (7.005 million / 10,097 km^2), or Greater Gold…

These area are huge. Switzerland is 41,285 km^2, Belgium is 30,528 km^2, The Netherlands is 41,543 km^2.

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#99

Post by patrick_99 »

justinlaing wrote: post #10

Who is going to move to Toronto to join the tech scene? If given the choice who is going to choose Toronto over Bay Area or Seattle? Without it having a massive draw it won't even register compared to Bay Area or even Seattle.

People who can't get visas to the US

Re: Toronto is poised to become a producer of tech startups

#100

Post by coke12 »

clessg wrote: post #96
oniTony wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadians get access to TN class work visa. It's meant for temporary work, but gives a few years to figure out a more permanent approach.

What would a more permanent approach be? Marriage?

H-1B, O-1, L-1, and perhaps more.
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