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Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

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Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#91

Post by [deleted] »

curiousgal wrote: post #10
zanny wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd personally see people just stop using Windows. The more people using Linux, the more money in the market for Wine to get better and better replace all the Windows APIs for everyones "I cannot use Linux because X program is Windows only" software. I mean, I'm already playing Skyrim natively on an AMD GPU thanks to Gallium Nine. And that is only because there has been a lot of internal pressure in the community to…

Ever since I could run 1Password using Wine with full browser integration, I've completely turned my back to Windows.

[deleted]

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#92

Post by all2well »

jmiserez wrote: post #82
codedokode wrote: post #71

Using dark UI patterns (like dialogs without cancel button) is disrespectful to users. They bought Windows to get stable and reliable operationg system. The system that updates at night and gets drivers or software broken is nowhere near stable. Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) doesn't autoupdate. It might be acceptable if Microsoft gave their product away for free: many free products (e.g. Sublime or Sk…

> Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) I disagree. Linux is great as a desktop system precisely because you're in control, not some third-party. And in terms of desktop functionality there is no meaningful difference anymore.

>because you're in control

Realistically, who reads and reasons about every line of code that their system runs? For the most part, people don't ever really consider software beyond just installing it. In that case, maintainers have control.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#93

Post by markrages »

Mithaldu wrote: post #66
mattkevan wrote: post #49

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as p…

Edit: Note that i am not disagreeing that MS is engaging in a dark pattern by opting-in users implicitly, and then only informing them about said opt-in having happened. The snide and snark in this post only came about because i realized rather suddenly what was actually happening, and how the misreporting and sensationalizing had skewed this whole thing in a way that the reporting helped literally nobody but people'…

Yes, it's definitely the user's fault for closing a pop-up window. Those always contain essential information.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#94

Post by overgard »

Mithaldu wrote: post #52
Joeri wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a user action to install it, but it's pretty sneaky. MS changed the behavior of the upgrade question dialog that if you close it with x it will start the download and then install when ready. Your girlfriend must have clicked the x some time prior to the sudden upgrade. Even my tech-savvy coworker who didn't want to upgrade got caught out by this. Anyway, you can still roll back, and then install never10.

Edit: After some thinking: Yes, i agree this is a dark pattern and MS needs to be held accountable to it accordingly. My only disagreement with the current direction of discourse is that people are not saying "MS manipulated me into an update", which is the truth, but "Windows updated on its own and there was nothing anyone could do", which isn't. -- They didn't change it, it was always that way. People only realized…

How many dumb windows pop up all the time that you close out without really considering? I'm constantly getting "Apple Software Update", "Java needs updating", "Adobe creative cloud needs updating" and about 4000 other irritating update windows. Nobody carefully reads those because nobody has time for that many distractions.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#95

Post by morganvachon »

trhway wrote: post #6
curiousgal wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

exactly - either forced upgrade or downloading and running some utility from a site/company i see for the first time and have never heard about :)

Steve Gibson is one of the most trusted developers of the past few decades. His SpinRite software is a life saver.

Please read about him before dismissing him out of hand because you've not heard of him. There's more to the world than what's inside your box.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#96

Post by jmiserez »

all2well wrote: post #92
jmiserez wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) I disagree. Linux is great as a desktop system precisely because you're in control, not some third-party. And in terms of desktop functionality there is no meaningful difference anymore.

>because you're in control Realistically, who reads and reasons about every line of code that their system runs? For the most part, people don't ever really consider software beyond just installing it. In that case, maintainers have control.

You don't have to read every line of code. But if some maintainer goes and adds something like the Win 10 autoupdate, you are allowed to go and revert that and provide an alternate fork or distribution (assuming GPL license or similar). You can't do that for Windows, because legally you're not allowed to.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#97

Post by khedoros »

all2well wrote: post #92
jmiserez wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) I disagree. Linux is great as a desktop system precisely because you're in control, not some third-party. And in terms of desktop functionality there is no meaningful difference anymore.

>because you're in control Realistically, who reads and reasons about every line of code that their system runs? For the most part, people don't ever really consider software beyond just installing it. In that case, maintainers have control.

I choose from among the dozens of options, based on functionality and configurability. That's the degree of control that I've needed. Saying that "control" would require someone to read every line of source is a wonderful strawman.

> In that case, maintainers have control.

And if they change the software in a way that I dislike, I can fetch a previous version of the program and use it that way forever, or disable the changes in the new version. Thankfully, I don't usually have to do that. There's almost always another piece of software that can be reconfigured to do what I want.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#98

Post by api »

mavhc wrote: post #69
yuhong wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most important one here is the Windows Store.

It's mostly about Windows Phone, which needs apps, which means the store needs users. If it gets users then people will bother to develop cross phone/desktop apps. Of course no one uses the store still, even as Microsoft tries to force/trick you into logging in with a Microsoft ID.

They're rushing to copy all the things I dislike about Apple. They're also rushing to emulate the things I hate about Google and Facebook. Meanwhile they are doing little to fix what I don't like about Microsoft, nor are they copying many of the good things.

In Zero to One there is an excellent chapter about the dark side of competition and how it makes you cargo cult your competitors instead of thinking creatively. This is an example.

Don't compete. Innovate and focus on the user and the problem domain, not the others. Otherwise you just become an inferior copy.

Windows 10 Spyware Edition is a misstep like Google Plus.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#99

Post by anotherevan »

Mithaldu wrote: post #66
mattkevan wrote: post #49

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as p…

Edit: Note that i am not disagreeing that MS is engaging in a dark pattern by opting-in users implicitly, and then only informing them about said opt-in having happened. The snide and snark in this post only came about because i realized rather suddenly what was actually happening, and how the misreporting and sensationalizing had skewed this whole thing in a way that the reporting helped literally nobody but people'…

Also ask them about how many bloody times prompts about upgrading have come up, again and again and again. People are not perfect robots that crunch data, fatigue sets in at some point, which is exactly what microsoft preyed on in this case. Crunching data is what we use computers for, or at least try to.

Re: Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

#100

Post by zxcvcxz »

codedokode wrote: post #87
jmiserez wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) I disagree. Linux is great as a desktop system precisely because you're in control, not some third-party. And in terms of desktop functionality there is no meaningful difference anymore.

Linux might be great if you have enough free time for learning how to set it up, experimenting and fixing bugs. Also you'll need time to optimize it. For example out-of-the-box Debian boots slower that Windows. And latest Ununtu is maybe 2 or 3 times slower than Debian, I don't remember when I saw such a long operating system bootup. Maybe it needs SSD but I don't want to buy it.

Windows might be great if you have enough free time for learning to disable all the crapware, experimenting and fixing bugs. Also you'll need time to optimize it. For example out-of-the-box Windows on an SSD boots slower that Ubuntu and Windows boots slower than any Linux OS on an HDD. And latest Windows 10 is maybe 2 or 3 times slower than Windows 7, I don't remember when I saw such a long operating system bootup. I know for certain it needs SSD but I don't want to buy it.

(this is my experience, and the experience of many on the Windows 10 forums)

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