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This Biology Book Blew Me Away

gatesnotes.com

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Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#91
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not too sure we know how Cyanobacteria arose (I did my Ph.D. on them) nor how mitochondria arose. Given how rampant horizontal gene transfer is I doubt we ever will. I think the most interest question in this early biology is why LUCA is so complex [1]. We have a massive gap between abiotic processes and the first organism we know anything about. What happened. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_universal_anc…

Thanks. There are some hints to "why" on the page you link to: "Before high fidelity replication, organisms could not be easily mapped on a phylogenetic tree. Not to be confused with the Ur-organism, however, the LUCA lived after the genetic code and at least some rudimentary early form of molecular proofreading had already evolved. It was not the very first cell, but rather, the one whose descendents survived beyond…

And the question that fascinates me is "where are these primitive forms"? Even if the original forms evolved since, why can't we find at least some "improved" forms that use these more primitive principles than the ones we're accustomed to?

This is a really good question. It is possible that some of these primitive lifeforms still exist (deep underground would be my best guess) but for technical reasons we can’t easily find them.

We have two basic ways of find living microorganisms: 1. We can either grow them in culture, or 2. We can look for genetic markers that can be amplified using techniques like PCR. If these primitive micro-organisms grow slowly (say divide once a year) then we will never find them in culture (we already know the microorganisms that live deep underground grow at this sort of speed). The genetic marker approach requires that the primitive organism have the same genes as all modern organisms (ribosomes normally). If they don’t have these genes then we won’t find them using our current approaches - they could be there and we just miss them.

If I was Bill Gates rich I would spend some of my money sponsoring deep earth microbiologists to look for cells that appear to be maintaining an energy gradient, but which don’t have ribosomes.

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horizontal gene transfer is underestimated by biologists, but I am not sure in what sense LUCA is confused. I would not call the root of the tree of life a disgusting mess, just fuzzy.

If horizontal gene transfer was common and rampant at the outset of life, then a fundamental fact of evolutionary descent was not true at that point. This means there may NOT be a LUCA, but several progenitor organisms that each contributed to a portion of eventual life. E.g. there are four features ABCD. We may have descendants that are AB, BC, CD, AD, without having any creature that was ABCD.

Horizontal gene transfer is still rampant - actually it is a far better way to mix genes than sexual reproduction and it is probably why microbes rule the world.

LUCA is an imaginary organism that captures the features that all known living organisms share - almost certainly the history of decent of each gene in modern organisms is different.

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#93
post #2

Two biology events (not sure this book covers) that are completely underestimated. 1) evolution of cyanobacteria as a freak merger of green-sulfur and purple photosynthetic bacteria. Well, biological historians DO understand the importance of this, but the reason why the chemistry is important is not well appreciated. Cyanos use water as a reductant - as an electron donor. Normally one does not think of water as a re…

Normally one does not think of water as a reductant, but as a facilitator oxidation.

Normally I don't think of water in either way ...

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#94
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The evolutionary advantage of cooperative problem solving is what gives rise to the human tendency to self-identify with mutually exclusive groups of every scope including political territories, religions, sports teams, etc. and in turn some of the largest aspects of human culture. 2. Our concept of knowledge, which is based on prediction from past observations, is rooted in the design of our nervous system. Intui…

Respect you putting up. #1 Original. More importantly, I like it :) Game theory meets ideology. I reckon that an multi-agent based simulation model with enough features could test your hypothesis. I think sociology will get there in about a decade. If you do this now you'll revolutionise a part of the field. #2 Not original. Epistemological theories have this covered. Also, you're blurring or at least not making dist…

1 is not necessarily original. Filip Buekens et al have worked on a model that constructs social institutions as emerging from incentivization structures like those present in cooperative games.

See for example J. P. Smit, Filip Buekens and Stan du Plessis (2011) "What is Money? An Alternative to Searle's Institutional Facts", Economics and Philosophy 27(1), pp 1 - 22, http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayFulltext?type=1&...

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#95
post #4

"Nick reminds me of writers like Jared Diamond, people who develop a grand theory that explains a lot about the world. He is one of those original thinkers who makes you say: More people should know about this guy’s work." I have original ideas that explain a lot about the world but no one cares because Bill Gates didn't tell everyone to listen to me. * Can anyone remind me why we care what Bill Gates thinks about bi…

We don't necessarily care what he thinks but we are made aware of what he thinks so when he mentions a book people are going to talk about it. What's the alternative? Ignore him because he's rich? Treat every media outlet like some photocopied fanzine publishing the random thoughts of random people with no reputation for anything?

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#96
"Why does all complex life—every plant and animal you can see—share certain traits, like getting old and reproducing via sex? "

There are plenty of examples of asexual reproduction in plants and animals as well as complex organisms never getting old.

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#97
post #52
post #19

I have read The Vital Question, after hearing about it from BillG's blog. And it did blew me away. I immediately read also Oxygen, by same author, and I found it equally interesting (it goes in more detail on some topics, but some of the ideas in Oxygen are superseded by his later books). If you can spare an hour, I recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGxAB4Weq0U . Is made by the author and it cover…

Would you recommend it as an audio book, or are the visuals essential?

Can't rly answer since I have never ever tried an audio book, but I can tell that imho there are important visuals every 4-5 pages or so.

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#99
post #29

I have a question for the HN molecular biology aficionados: Where can I find some good critique of Nick Lane's ideas? He sure convinced me, but I would like to see what the experts say about it.

The Vital Question advocates a theory that mitochondrial endosymbiosis was critical to origin of eukaryote. Recently some evidences emerged that mitochondria was a late acquisition, casting doubts to the theory.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v531/n7592/full/nature1...

Re: This Biology Book Blew Me Away

#100
"He makes a persuasive case that complex life must have the traits we see today. And he argues that it would almost certainly develop the same way everywhere. Which means that, if we find complex life on other planets, it will quite likely share the same traits." "is so compelling that it’s hard to imagine any other way"

The explanation is just a hypothesis about the cellular structural evolution of the living organisms we're having all around us. From what I understand that was only one successful combination of cell structures working under a given set of conditions. In another conditions another combination could have formed the basis of later evolved complex life. Sure, the E.T. life would most likely have similar composition of chemical elements (because of their abundance in the universe, if nothing else), but I can't expect it to necessarily have the same base structural cell model at their core. I think Mr. Gates' fascination with related problems affected his disposition for healthy criticism here.

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