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Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

bbc.com

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Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#91

Post by sp332 »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #41
sp332 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being poor shouldn't mean you can't get basic life-sustaining things like food, shelter, clothing. That's why being poor is not an excuse for stealing but being hungry is.

Considering Italy is a welfare-style state, this just opens up cannoli snatching and such instead of going to whatever socialized or charitable shelters and services. Unhealthy high sugar and high caffeine foods will be in demand by snatchers. Ironically, this is going to hurt the working poor the most who work at low margin restaurants, retail shops, etc as people just grab whatever they want because there is no mor…

If society has failed people so badly that they're starving in the streets, they should probably expect riots let alone petty theft.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#93

Post by scurvy »

Europeans (DHH for example) constantly brag about what great social safety nets the European countries provide for their people, and that US style charities are a waste. Implying charity money should be given to the government as tax money and let the state do their work instead.

Italy has just admitted that it can't take care of its citizens' basic needs. I'm not saying it's time to eat crow, but I am saying it's time to realize that both systems have flaws and there's no reason to get righteous about one approach over another.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#94

Post by fla »

garyrob wrote: post #30

It's a little hard to understand how this ruling won't cause a certain degree of chaos. Can any hungry, homeless person now steal food from any store in Italy without repercussion? Certainly as a matter of compassion, this ruling can be argued as being reasonable, but how can it work as a practical matter?

IMO, "not a crime" doesn't mean it isn't reprehensible. The article doesn't go into details unfortunately.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#95

Post by orkoden »

As the bible says http://www.bibleserver.com/text/ESV/Deuteronomy23%2C25

> If you go into your neighbor’s vineyard, you may eat your fill of grapes, as many as you wish, but you shall not put any in your bag. 25 If you go into your neighbor’s standing grain, you may pluck the ears with your hand, but you shall not put a sickle to your neighbor’s standing grain.

Stealing food is okay sometimes. There's even a word in German for it Mundraub.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#97

Post by saosebastiao »

If you're gonna force business owners to give to the poor, why not do it through an established and equitable mechanism like taxation/redistribution, instead of subjecting select types of business owners to the whims of a mostly subjective claim? Why force the burden on a bakery but not a tailor or a chocolatier?

I can't help but be concerned about this growing trend of governments slowly pushing off the burden of general welfare onto businesses. You see it in the US with health care being the responsibility of the employer, affordable housing mandates on real estate developers, and minimum wage increases in expensive areas. All of these "solutions" to poverty have huge unintended consequences, even if they partially address the problem. The problem of poverty isn't solved by forcing businesses to be compassionate, it is solved by governments doing their fucking job and taxing everybody equitably to do so.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#98

Post by sp332 »

notsotrue wrote: post #27
sp332 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being poor shouldn't mean you can't get basic life-sustaining things like food, shelter, clothing. That's why being poor is not an excuse for stealing but being hungry is.

Agreed, I'm all for basic income, and social safety nets. But stealing them, isn't the right answer either. The burden should be on the state to provide those necessities, not the local business owners.

In many jurisdictions people are allowed to kill other people if it's done in self-defense. If the alternative is dying, lots of things become legal.

Re: Italian court rules food theft 'not a crime' if hungry

#100

Post by gedrap »

rootlocus wrote: post #63
delecti wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, surely the store from which he stole is still victimized by the theft. Is every supermarket now de facto required to set up small food pantries for the poor to protect themselves from theft?

Considering the massive amounts of food that gets thrown away even before the expiration date, I'm amazed this is even an issue. There was an entire episode of "Last Week Tonight" on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8xwLWb0lLY

Slightly related, throwing food away and the expiration date is a tricky thing.

My dad works at grocery store and initially, they were allowed to bring the food home once it expires for a symbolic cost (10% of the price or something). Soon after that, the employees started to hide food so that they can take it home almost for free. So it didn't last long.

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