Is this available with Ember-CLI only?
Yes, it relies heavily on Ember CLI.
Sad to hear. I switched to React last year because I had the fear this would happen.
Ember Fastboot
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Re: Ember Fastboot
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's been possible with React for quite some time[1], and it appears to be included in Angular 2[2]. [1]: https://github.com/mhart/react-server-example [2]: https://angular.io
Sorry to nitpick, but I don't think the React example is an analogous initiative. ;) There is a huge gulf between "synchronously render a component in Node" and "asynchronously boot an app, marshall async data, render an async UI, and do it concurrently." I touch on this a little bit in this talk[1], but the bulk of the work we've done over the last year is conventionalizing app boot and figuring out how to run multi…
Touché. I reckon I should have read 'analogous' a bit more strictly.
Re: Ember Fastboot
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree it helps -- but there is a hidden cost of people not understanding all the towers of abstraction that have been built up for them, despite sitting on top of it. Ember CLI does file generation and a whole lot more. I'm not saying it shouldn't -- but that shouldn't be the easiest most approachable way to start with Ember. Why should someone have to learn all the following things: - transpiling - nodejs - npm &…
Good points, though I'll say I've rarely seen Ember be recommended to beginners. And to be fair, the same thing has been said about React, though both Ember and React allow you to use a CDN link like in the good old days.
Following this Ember.js tutorial, it is really easy to learn Ember for beginners: http://yoember.com
Re: Ember Fastboot
#94Re: Ember Fastboot
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sad to hear. I switched to React last year because I had the fear this would happen.
May I ask what your reticence is to Ember-CLI?
I dislike code generators and want to use my own tooling for building, testing, etc.
In my eyes Ember has become an old-school Rails like Blob and newer frameworks are more about modules and "Bring Your Own Tools". I mean who, besides Ember, uses Broccoli?!
Re: Ember Fastboot
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
May I ask what your reticence is to Ember-CLI?
I dislike code generators and want to use my own tooling for building, testing, etc. In my eyes Ember has become an old-school Rails like Blob and newer frameworks are more about modules and "Bring Your Own Tools". I mean who, besides Ember, uses Broccoli?!
But what exactly is the point of a framework if you're bringing your own tools?
Re: Ember Fastboot
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I dislike code generators and want to use my own tooling for building, testing, etc. In my eyes Ember has become an old-school Rails like Blob and newer frameworks are more about modules and "Bring Your Own Tools". I mean who, besides Ember, uses Broccoli?!
But what exactly is the point of a framework if you're bringing your own tools?
To me it always feels like they devs admit they failed the day they start to include code generators into their frameworks.
Re: Ember Fastboot
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
But what exactly is the point of a framework if you're bringing your own tools?
To me it always feels like they devs admit they failed the day they start to include code generators into their frameworks.
That seems to me like a really bizarre thing based on a really personal story(that I'd like to hear). After all:
* Code generators can speed up development * They give newbies a better idea of how the framework should be treated * They give the framework a more dependable layout * They still provide the escape hatch of not using them!
What would a dev have failed at simply because they built a code generator?
Re: Ember Fastboot
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me it always feels like they devs admit they failed the day they start to include code generators into their frameworks.
That seems to me like a really bizarre thing based on a really personal story(that I'd like to hear). After all: * Code generators can speed up development * They give newbies a better idea of how the framework should be treated * They give the framework a more dependable layout * They still provide the escape hatch of not using them! What would a dev have failed at simply because they built a code generator?
> What would a dev have failed at simply because they built a code generator?
Creating an understandable API and making stuff easily extensible.
I often have the feeling these code generators try to hide bad design decisions, which resulted in a huge amount of boilerplate code, that wouldn't be needed if things were designed different.
And you can't even blame most frameworks for it. Ember has so much history that you can't simply throw every thing out, because "now animations or server-rendering is a PITA", so devs maneuver around it with code generators.
There are valid reasons to have them. But when I have to choose frameworks for a new project, code generators are definitely red flags for me.
I don't have much of a problem with this controller/route/model generation stuff, that you mentioned. I wouldn't use it, but I can see why people save a few minutes.
Re: Ember Fastboot
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
That seems to me like a really bizarre thing based on a really personal story(that I'd like to hear). After all: * Code generators can speed up development * They give newbies a better idea of how the framework should be treated * They give the framework a more dependable layout * They still provide the escape hatch of not using them! What would a dev have failed at simply because they built a code generator?
> What would a dev have failed at simply because they built a code generator? Creating an understandable API and making stuff easily extensible. I often have the feeling these code generators try to hide bad design decisions, which resulted in a huge amount of boilerplate code, that wouldn't be needed if things were designed different. And you can't even blame most frameworks for it. Ember has so much history that yo…
That's really all that Ember has in terms of code generation. That, and getting tests set up for you.
I don't see how you have a large ecosystem that is still friendly to a new developer without code generators unless you want huge boilerplate. A frontend requires a lot of moving parts, and letting someone else take care of that for me is important.