Live data from Hacker News

Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

eff.org

91–100 of 135 posts

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#91
post #7

I have to say, we should all be super grateful for the OSS community. There's so much free non-publicly funded continuously supported OSS available within a click of a button. I am a data scientist, and everyday I am amazed how powerful the anaconda distribution (and its over 150 included packages) is. Is there any industry on Earth that has anything like OSS?

Bioinformatics is close.

I moved from Computer Science into bioinformatics / computational immunology.

Bioinformatics is fatally infected by the associated culture of biology. Tools get squirreled away until published in a non-open venue, then eventually dumped online in some difficult to install manner.

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#92
post #74
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Promote open-access submissions by your researchers: a small monetary bonus would probably suffice. Simply paying for open-access submissions would probably suffice. I'm a scientific researcher myself, but most of my work gets published non-open-access: publishing open-access costs ~$500, and as a grad student as much as I think open-access should be the de-facto standard, I'm not in a position to be paying that my…

Is it possible for you to release a PDF/LaTeX source via other means?

Depends on the publisher. Both ACM and IEEE allow publishing a copy on your website, don't know about Springer or Elsevier. Most authors in CS that I know publish copies as soon as they are accepted for publication.

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#93
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Promote open-access submissions by your researchers: a small monetary bonus would probably suffice. Simply paying for open-access submissions would probably suffice. I'm a scientific researcher myself, but most of my work gets published non-open-access: publishing open-access costs ~$500, and as a grad student as much as I think open-access should be the de-facto standard, I'm not in a position to be paying that my…

How much is the department paying for those journal subscriptions? Just redirect that cut journal subscription money that GP suggested into the open-access submission fee.

How budgets generally work:

University pays for journal subscriptions.

Lab (sometimes Department) pays to submit articles.

These are wholly different budgets. Some universities have open access funds to try to encourage researchers to publish open access articles. Some have open access policies that basically unilaterally declare all their research articles will be distributed by the university as open access.

This is a fight that has to occur monetarily at the university level, a lab that hasn't had a grant renewed and is having all its students TA'ing to pay their salaries doesn't have the funds to pay what is often several thousand dollars per publication[1][2] to always publish open access. A semi-productive lab could easily pay as much in publication fees for a year as they would for a graduate student.

[1] http://acsopenaccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ACS_Sale... [2] http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/s/publication-fees

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60-70% public money How are you judging the percentage there? Are you including the cost of drugs that don't get approved?

You can read here about the process in the US more: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK50972/ I guess this is different country by country.

Nothing in that link says pharmaceutical research is 60-70% public money.

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#95
post #44

I always thought it was weird that it wasn't always publicly available. I'm ok with allocating taxdollars to funding new research, but I think that if my taxdollars go to something, I should have access to it. I can see where there should be exceptions like in cases of national security or maybe if minors are involved, but otherwise I think public stuff should actually be public.

Shout out to NASA and whoever did this, as they've always had a much clearer mandate to make things public domain. On their website they explicitly state that images, models, etc. are not copyrighted unless they were copyrighted by someone else and used with permission.

That isn't a NASA policy, that is the law about works by government employees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_work_by_th...

This is actually reflected in the copyright agreements at every major journal. See, for instance, Form B at the ACS journals.

http://pubs.acs.org/page/copyright/journals/index.html

The difference is in whom the employer is. If you are employed by a university doing work on a government grant, you are not a federal employee, so the work is copyrighted.

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shout out to NASA and whoever did this, as they've always had a much clearer mandate to make things public domain. On their website they explicitly state that images, models, etc. are not copyrighted unless they were copyrighted by someone else and used with permission.

That isn't a NASA policy, that is the law about works by government employees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_work_by_th... This is actually reflected in the copyright agreements at every major journal. See, for instance, Form B at the ACS journals. http://pubs.acs.org/page/copyright/journals/index.html The difference is in whom the employer is. If you are employed by a university doing work on a g…

I suspected the all-government-employees thing but wasn't aware of the journal copyright aspect. Thanks for clarifying with sources!

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#97
The government subsidizes research because we believe that research provides a public good that cannot be easily packaged and sold at a profit. So even though you are able to sell trade journals and such, the benefit to society is actually much greater than the price of the journal. Okay, fine. We subsidize vaccines, education, all sorts of stuff. We probably don't subsidize research enough, especially when you consider rapidly dropping funding for our public universities.

But the point of a subsidy is to make the producers of a good produce more of it than they would otherwise by making it more profitable for them to do so. If you were to ban profiting off of research at all, then you'd actually be discouraging the production of that good.

Some people have been arguing lately for something even more absurd, which is that if a university receives any public funding at all, then all of their research has been tainted by the transitive property of government funding and must be released to everyone for free and fuck the hard work the researchers put into it.

You're essentially asking for the government to limit all science funding to only government projects, like the government is commissioning science to be done. This puts too much control in the hands of bureaucrats and the ebb and flow of politics.

If, on the other hand, you want the government to provide the service of providing research to the general public, we have something like that and they're called libraries. Maybe you should band together to improve the kinds of services libraries offer.

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lobbyism is legal so no.

Corrupt doesn't mean illegal, it means dishonest, disloyal, lacking in integrity, etc.

Or fraudulent which is the right word in this context. Lobbyism is legal whether it's dishonest, disloyal, lacking in integrity.

So corruption in this context should be understood as fraudulent which is illegal.

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both should be at the focus as they are often two pieces of the same part.

Think of segregation/separate but equal. Nothing can really stop someone from choosing not to associate with another person because of their race or gender. And that's generally okay. But the second it becomes law of the land, through government, it's a problem. IP is no different.

There is plenty of lobbyism that's ok. The problem is when it's conspiring against the interest of the society as a whole. So both should of course be monitored closely.

Re: Publicly Funded Research Should Be Publicly Available

#100

Journals act as the Yahoo of scientific papers. That is they are an index of certain topical relevance and editorial quality. (The original idea of Yahoo was a vetted directory to web pages) I am not sure if papers scattered around random university servers would be easily found. A case in point is the annual proceedings of the SIGGRAPH computer graphics conference. ACM sells a wonderfully color printed volume of the…

Somehow, physics does not appear to need such extensive vetting - to me (as an outsider) it seems like physicists can find what they need on arxiv.org

Hope that model successfully crosses over to biology (biorxiv.org). For now, I use the following heuristic after finding an article on google/google scholar:

* do I know the journal at all (to filter out vanity journals) * do I know the researchers involved (and I learn of new researchers through citations in papers, through presentations online or at conferences and through twitter) * I look at the number of citations of the paper (using google scholar) and relevance of the papers that already cite the paper of interest (using google scholar).

In addition, I also read papers :-).

Post reply on HN