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Scala School

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Re: Scala School

#91

Post by Chris2048 »

StreamBright wrote: post #79
Chris2048 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it compare to Python or Ruby?

https://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons/ "Java Python programs are generally expected to run slower than Java programs, but they also take much less time to develop. Python programs are typically 3-5 times shorter than equivalent Java programs." I think Python performance wise a less attractive options than Java or Scala. At least according to the authors. Development time is a different question.

DEv/debug time is expensive, and there are options for python - http://quant-econ.net/py/need_for_speed.html

Re: Scala School

#92

Post by lmm »

Chris2048 wrote: post #89
the_af wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you know this, but it warrants saying explicitly: Scala is statically typed, while Python and Ruby aren't. This has immediate practical implications which for many people (on both sides of the divide) are A Big Deal. In terms of elegance and succinctness, Scala is somewhere in the middle between Java's bureaucratic verbosity and Python's terseness.

Yes, I used to mainly work with Java, but now mainly Python. I was wondering if "best language going" had considered these two languages.

Yes - I have substantial experience with both. The differences from those are wider (and the advantages - or what others may see as disadvantages - clearer) - I felt it was more useful to compare against more similar languages where people would be more likely to be choosing between them.

Re: Scala School

#93

Post by eatonphil »

pcx wrote: post #7

Learning Scala is such a pain. Either you follow a large book completely and master it across several months/years or go through overly complicated online guides and get discouraged. I understand it's a large, advanced language, but the community has to seriously work on making things a bit easier for beginners like me. Just look at how easy it is to learn Go or Rust, their official tutorials are amazing and free on…

If you have the time and the interest, start with Standard ML. It is one of (or just?) the simplest languages in the ML family (which also include OCaml, Haskell, Scala, etc.).

You'll see yourself wanting a number of features you'd expect in a modern language, and end up discovering the motivation and approach behind how Scala or Haskell work. Operator overloading (ad-hoc polymorphism) and modular implicits are two of the ones I come across the most.

I have always felt that Haskell and Scala (and OCaml sorta) are way too complicated. However, spending time learning Standard ML and the foundations of this family have been really illuminating - you'll discover how powerful Haskell and Scala really are. For an analogy, you can think of switching to FreeBSD from Linux to get closer to Unix roots so you can understand Linux (the historic decisions and reasons) better.

Take a look at the /r/sml wiki [0] if you need help getting started.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/sml/wiki

Re: Scala School

#94

Post by airless_bar »

_snydly wrote: post #22
joshlemer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walmart, EnerNOC, Verizon, LinkedIn, Hootsuite, Coursera, Foursquare, Meetup.com, Nitro, Workday, AirBnB, there's quite a lot..

I'm curious, why Scala over all other options?

It's the best language you can get currently.

There are a few "copy-cats", but it shows that the creators lacked the experience and time to really think about how to achieve coherence of language constructs and how different parts play together.

In addition to that, Scala has a huge head-start and is quite stable and mature. The language is expressive enough that I can't envision many features which couldn't be expressed with the existing language. For example, Scala.js didn't require any language extensions at all.

Re: Scala School

#95

Post by softinio »

merb wrote: post #66

What I hate about Scala School is that they are still using Twitter Future's and not Scala Future's, that could be aweful for Beginners.

The Scala school course has not been updated for a long time. I am not sure its a good resource anymore.

Re: Scala School

#96

Post by lmm »

Chris2048 wrote: post #91
StreamBright wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons/ "Java Python programs are generally expected to run slower than Java programs, but they also take much less time to develop. Python programs are typically 3-5 times shorter than equivalent Java programs." I think Python performance wise a less attractive options than Java or Scala. At least according to the authors. Development time is a different question.

DEv/debug time is expensive, and there are options for python - http://quant-econ.net/py/need_for_speed.html

Absolutely - if I could reliably write correct code first time then Python might well be a better option. Reduced debugging time is my biggest reason for preferring Scala. In particular the ability to refactor with confidence is exponentially helpful (you can keep your APIs clean and clear, which feeds back in and helps prevent mistakes). Having the safety of a typed language without having to sacrifice any of the clarity of Python was a real revelation.

Re: Scala School

#97

Post by critium »

pcx wrote: post #7

Learning Scala is such a pain. Either you follow a large book completely and master it across several months/years or go through overly complicated online guides and get discouraged. I understand it's a large, advanced language, but the community has to seriously work on making things a bit easier for beginners like me. Just look at how easy it is to learn Go or Rust, their official tutorials are amazing and free on…

I've taught scala to several devs as well and I'd like to echo that the course on coursera is absolutely essential.

On a separate note, I leared scala and clojure nearly at the same time and I'd say that learning clojure actually helped me grow in scala as well.

edit: Reply fail. This was a response to hythloday -----

Re: Scala School

#98

Post by [deleted] »

critium wrote: post #97
pcx wrote: post #7

Learning Scala is such a pain. Either you follow a large book completely and master it across several months/years or go through overly complicated online guides and get discouraged. I understand it's a large, advanced language, but the community has to seriously work on making things a bit easier for beginners like me. Just look at how easy it is to learn Go or Rust, their official tutorials are amazing and free on…

I've taught scala to several devs as well and I'd like to echo that the course on coursera is absolutely essential. On a separate note, I leared scala and clojure nearly at the same time and I'd say that learning clojure actually helped me grow in scala as well. edit: Reply fail. This was a response to hythloday -----

[deleted]

Re: Scala School

#99

Post by JackFr »

argonaut wrote: post #52
salex89 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be true, but I don't think it is hard as the general opinion is. I think it's mostly about the technique and patience. You can't expect miracles at once or a wow factor. I generally started using it for smaller projects or parts where I could experiment a bit, and started using it as a better Java. I also played CodinGame with Scala. As things caught pace I started evolving it a bit and looking into refact…

But compare this to someone's experience with Python, Ruby, JavaScript, Go, or (maybe) Rust, where they are much more rapidly productive, and they actually have that immediate wow factor. I think this may also apply to "lighter"-weight Scala alternatives like Kotlin/Ceylon one day, depending on their adoption. So I think Scala pales on this dimension relative to its competition.

Not familiar with Go or Rust, but the issue with newcomers to Scala, as compared to Python, Ruby, Javascript is one of the ecosystem rather than the language. While that's very off-putting to newcomers, it hopefully is a one-time cost amortized of the life of your language use.

Re: Scala School

#100

Post by JackFr »

lmm wrote: post #82
argonaut wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are really stretching things by saying you'd be productive on day 1. Scala code has an immediate upfront complexity cost.

I am speaking from direct personal experience. Explicit effect sequencing is optional (in contrast to Haskell), traditional OO with inheritance is available. You may not be able to read all the standard library type signatures on day 1 but the documentation is adequate without them. Anything you could do in Python/Ruby/Javascript translates directly; in the very short term I guess not having a single baked-into-the-l…

I have found that the issue isn't the language, it's the ecosystem. If you're coming from Java environment set up is not such a big deal, but if your brand new it is not as easy as other languages.
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