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Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

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Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#91

Post by Quanticles »

mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Some of these locations don't have any other companies in the area.

Example:

You're 22, straight out of college, you take a job at IBM in Poughkeepsie, NY because it was a great fit for you and you liked the area. You raise a family there, get friends there, establish a lot of roots over 10+ years. Now IBM is "transforming", what are you going to do? There are no other companies in the area

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#92

Post by kazinator »

ImTalking wrote: post #83
kazinator wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 2nd line manager thinking for you! If only suspenders could talk ... of course they can't since their jaws are firmly clenched into the upper hems of size 46 slacks.

He's the one who said to me "If you walk like a duck, quack like a duck, act like a duck, you are a duck" like he was the Oracle of Delphi.

OOP visionary, wow.

(And if your birth certificate and other papers say you're a duck, but you don't quite walk like one, then you're a subtype of duck. If you're a subtype of duck which has a thumb and a nose, then you use these appendages together to show disdain for Barbara Liskov's Substitution Principle.)

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#93

Post by gozur88 »

mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Geographic limitations are a big deal. I'm in the same sort of position as the IBM'ers, in that my company is slowly farming out what used to be internal apps to SaaS companies and moving the remaining jobs to a contractor in India.

My family is local, and as I get older that's more and more important. If I have to leave town it's going to have a big impact on my happiness. So much so, in fact, that I may take a huge pay cut and work at, I dunno, Starbucks or something so I can stay local.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#94

Post by kazinator »

tim333 wrote: post #90
ImTalking wrote: post #53

I worked for IBM during the 80s at the height of IBM's power. It was the golden ticket. 400,000 employees and everyone was convinced it was going to hit $100B market cap. When I quit to form my own business, my 2nd line manager said "Why would anyone want to quit IBM?". Long time ago.

It did hit a $100B cap. Just took a while.

Yes; a little uptick in the cap, a little downtick in the value of a dollar and you're there.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#95

Post by fdej »

nickff wrote: post #81
ryandrake wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$6.2M sounds like a lot for any single human being.

$6.2M is not a lot for a big company if the leader can increase sales or profits by even a few percent... which does not appear to be the case here.

Well, there was some recently published research that claimed to find that most of the effect attributed to CEO performance actually can be explained by random fluctuations. Make of that what you will.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#96

Post by maxxxxx »

dogma1138 wrote: post #59
makecheck wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive pay doesn’t seem to follow the high-risk-high-reward scenario; they keep the “high reward” but see apparently none of the “high risk”. A much more balanced system would be something like, for each executive: - Your base pay is $51 million. - If you FAIL at your task, YOU OWE THE COMPANY $50 million. - If you succeed, you receive an extra $20 million. If you choose to split $15 million of this reward with em…

That's not that far from how it works except for the last part. Many executive have a low base pay but a very high bonus component especially CEO's it's usually not 50 to 1 (unless they take a "symbolic" salary when it ends up being usually millions to one) but it's quite high. Now granted it's not if you fail at your task you owe a company money but you don't get it, the owe a company money could happen it's usually…

These loans are later often forgiven.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#97

Post by jwiley »

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit.

Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in the tech sector is: don't ever expect a company to value you more than the next quarters earnings reports.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#98

Post by ryandrake »

redblacktree wrote: post #55
mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Fear of the unknown? Atrophy of key interviewing skills? Comfort with their position? There are a lot of reasons that people stay, even when a position or company is not optimal.

Maybe it's the weak job market? It's not like it's 1999 out there.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#99

Post by rdtsc »

Analemma_ wrote: post #64
rdtsc wrote: post #11

That is a good sign. It means the ship is slowly turning around. It sucks for the employees being laid off, no doubt. However they have to do this. There is no other way. They bet big on support and services in early 2000s. So they have lots of those employees. Could they all start to learn new things adapt to the new environment, yeah, some will but not everyone will. Heck, if they didn't lay off people, they'd stil…

> That is a good sign. It means the ship is slowly turning around. That's what it could mean, if this were some other company. You're right in saying that sometimes layoffs are an unpleasant but necessary part of some larger plan to refocus and turn the company around. But this is IBM we're talking about: there is no plan. There's not the slightest shred of evidence that there's a real mission underway to make them r…

> But this is IBM we're talking about: there is no plan

I would believe if you this was some newish 10-20 year old company. But they've been around for 100+ years. Some of it was luck, definitely, but I don't think it hung around on sheer luck for 100 years without a plan.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#100

Post by metaphorm »

gozur88 wrote: post #46
revelation wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company is it's employees. If IBM still has cheese slicer designers in 2016, it's because they failed to train them. The discussion we're having here is because there seem to be no repercussions to their failure.

No, actually a company is its shareholders. Literally. Employees are the hired help.

shareholder capitalism is a noxious falsehood that has very unfortunately been enshrined in our current interpretation of the law.

this should not be regarded as a baseline truth nor a desirable transitional state. it is a bad idea that we must not succumb to.

companies are multi-faceted entities with many different stakeholders. the workers are a 100% necessary stakeholder and the company cannot operate without them.

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