I know there's a big push against Not-Invented-Here-Syndrome, but he makes a good point about how a lot of small apps and websites depend on services that drastically change or disappear over the course of a few years. I wonder if in some cases it's better to simply develop an in-house solution for a service — it may be more expensive and less refined, but at least you know that service will be there as long as your…
To me it would make sense to go airline by airline (or datasource by datasource as long as they're tied to something users will understand), do the full integration, then advertise which airlines you support. Then you could guarantee a good experience for every officially supported airline. Additionally, as you do this you're building tech that is super valuable (sounds like only 2 other people have done it?). Real e…
Just Landed Is Shutting Down
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Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#92Question about flight data and the middlemen: Do these middlemen have to strike deals with the various airlines, or are they simply accessing public APIs that generally stink? What order of magnitude, cost wise, do these airlines charge in the deals? Could I, $random_guy, make a deal with $random_airline, for an amount that is sustainable without any special kind of funding?
In what is probably the biggest case, FlightAware, a lot of the data comes from a fleet of users running ADS-B[1] receivers feeding data into their system. ADS-B data is what Air Traffic Control uses to track planes, and it's receivable using using a cheap TV tuner and a raspberry pi[2]. It ends up being probably the best way to track planes very precisely, as long as you can get enough coverage, which flightaware ma…
I'm guessing FlightAware is one half of the "duopoly" spoken about in the submission.
Edit:
Looks like the cost per 1k queries for flight arrival times is $7.90 USD, which is a Class 2 query @ $0.0079 USD per query at the highest tier [0], but it goes down with more queries. You actually also probably want to pull their "AirlineFlightSchedules" API data to pull initial schedules for the day, which is a Class 1 query @ $0.0120 [0].
How many flights globally, per day? ~100,000 [1]. Once you fall down into their tiered pricing, and use their "15 results per query" rule, it amounts to ~$80. Once there is flight information for each flight for the day, there will likely be periodic update times. There's a firehose feed, but they don't specify pricing, so I'm not sure what the cost is to provide live updates.
If we say 5 updates per flight (total guess), that becomes ~500,000 queries daily of Class 2 data. I'm confident there's a way to batch these, so this comes down to ~33,334 requests, which puts us at ~$181.34 in additional charges per day.
So our daily costs are now about ~$261.34, or ~$7,840.20 per month, assuming they're not pulling data on-demand. This changes somewhat significantly if an app (correctly IMO) only pulls data for flights it's asked about. You get to cut out the $80/day entirely, and only some portion of the $181.34 is actually paid each day. If you consider the ~28,500 domestic flights in the US [2], and if app users only search for half of those, costs drop to ~$162 per day, or $4,860 monthly (plus the unknown cost of the firehose).
So, because of the cost of the data alone, your app will have to pull in a bunch of users. Wait, how many? Let's figure that out, based on an estimation strategy I pulled off of Quora (so it might be wrong) [3]:
Each user checks their flight status 3 times, which takes them ~1 minute overall to read, so we get 2 impressions [3]. I don't really know what these other two things are, but I guess we'll next assume 100% fill rate and eCPM of $3. But that's just per flight. 694 million passengers took flights in the US this year [4], and while I know we're getting into some pretty speculative territory, that's at least 2 flights per person per year, not to mention all the other people who also check on flight statuses of their friends/family. I feel comfortable saying that each person would check this app at least 15 times a year (you'd use it if you had it), or 0.04 times a day, which would give 0.08 impressions per day.
Our calculation is now:
(0.08n / 1000) * $3 * 1.0 = $0.0002n
$0.0002n = $162
n = 810,000
To cover costs for the data alone, you'd need 810,000 users. Even if each person used this app twice as often, you'd still need 405,000 users. That's completely untenable. I'm actually wondering if my math and assumptions are correct... [0] http://flightaware.com/commercial/flightxml/pricing_class.rvt
[1] http://www.garfors.com/2014/06/100000-flights-day.html
[2] http://sos.noaa.gov/Datasets/dataset.php?id=44
[3] https://www.quora.com/How-much-ad-revenue-can-be-expected-per-100-000-downloaded-iPhone-iPad-apps
[4] http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
No kidding, this was the weirdest shutdown statement I've read in a while, "we found users who derive commercial benefit from using us... so we're shutting down"
I think he did touch on that though. Essentially he's selling bread, and he's got to buy scarce flower at high prices in a convoluted system from a small number of farmers, and be forever at the mercy of the flower selling farmers. Only it's data instead of flower. Further, the data sometimes is bad and causes inaccuracy issues for customers without him knowing, this causes lots of complaints that he has no control o…
Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#94I wish I would have known about this before it shut down, but this is a great idea for Trains as well. Just Arrived.
I actually considered generalizing the app along these lines, for just about any in-person appointment that you have to keep.
Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#95Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Commercial people using your app vs commercial users willing to pay 500 times the current price are 2 very different things.
You got it. To profitably support commercial power users I would have had to change the business model to a pay-as-you-go subscription model. I considered doing this in a way that wouldn't shut out my casual users (for whom I created the app in the first place, and who are still the majority), but I had serious doubts about the willingness of taxi and limo drivers to pay for Just Landed on an ongoing basis. The proli…
Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
And then watch someone else launch a free version 3 weeks later...
Reading the article, its clear that won't ever happen. The data sources are expensive.
Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
No kidding, this was the weirdest shutdown statement I've read in a while, "we found users who derive commercial benefit from using us... so we're shutting down"
I think he did touch on that though. Essentially he's selling bread, and he's got to buy scarce flower at high prices in a convoluted system from a small number of farmers, and be forever at the mercy of the flower selling farmers. Only it's data instead of flower. Further, the data sometimes is bad and causes inaccuracy issues for customers without him knowing, this causes lots of complaints that he has no control o…
Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#99From the article: While the app was initially used primarily by individuals who made a few airport pickups per year, today Just Landed is increasingly used by professional limousine and taxi drivers, airline professionals, and travel companies. So they were seeing increasing use by commercial users. Sounds like a ripe opportunity to start charging for such access.
No kidding, this was the weirdest shutdown statement I've read in a while, "we found users who derive commercial benefit from using us... so we're shutting down"
Re: Just Landed Is Shutting Down
#100The dependence on third-party services like maps, messaging, flight data, etc. is an interesting topic. Services that help you to get up and running in a couple of clicks are awesome at first. But they can become a burden when your usage goes up beyond a trivial amount. This is a great lesson about thinking ahead when choosing third-party providers - either by passing the expense along to your customers or having a roadmap to phase them out when you hit a certain volume.
Another point is the one-time pricing which, in my mind, is somewhat of a ponzi scheme for a business model. I always cringe a little when I see a cool new app with a "one time payment for life!" pricing. You just can't support customers forever with a single lifetime payment unless you are earning revenue in some other way (i.e. advertising). It's easy to think that you'll continue to gain more customers forever, but you're setting yourself up to be crushed by your own success. Unless you're planning on regularly releasing new apps and/or in-app purchases for your customers to purchase, it's not a long-term business model.
Sorry to see the Just Landed go - it looked like a cool app. I think there is a lot to learn from this post so thanks to the author for posting.