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Harper Lee has died

nytimes.com

91–100 of 176 posts

Re: Harper Lee has died

#91
post #29

“Real courage is when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what.” That is one of my favorite quotes of all times, specifically taking into account the setting of the book.

What does it mean to be 'licked'?

To be defeated. Example, "They Can't Lick Our Dick" (Nixon campaign slogan).

Re: Harper Lee has died

#92
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

warning spoilers for the book. the tl;dr is: The lawyer isn't really that good a role model. He gets a black man off of a rape charge mostly by attacking the alleged victim's character. He can't bring himself to hate a white man that wants to lynch that same black man, or indeed even Hitler. In the end he conspires with the sheriff to obstruct justice when a nice middle class white man kills a poor white man. In this…

> He gets a black man off of a rape charge No, he tries to get a black man off of a rape charge, but he fails. And, it is worth noting, the black man was (almost certainly) actually innocent, the alleged victim was actually the aggressor, and the black man is ultimately killed by a vigilante.

The black man is clearly innocent and is killed by a prison guard when trying to escape.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#93
post #69
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd that people would think a great story that's written down isn't by definition a great piece of writing.

Here's a hint: if it's science fiction or fantasy, it's probably not considered 'great literature'. Having everyone die in the end is bonus points for 'great writing'.

Well, GRRM did that one better and had everybody die in the beginning!

Re: Harper Lee has died

#94
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many have said To Kill A Mockingbird made Harper Lee a "one hit wonder"...but, wow...the hit was a home run... Brilliant characterization--Scout, Jem, Dill, Atticus, Calpurnia, Boo Radley, the Ewells, Tom Robinson... The setting...the Deep South, small town flavor, racial tensions... This novel has it all...the Great American Novel, personified... Sad news...great writer...

Harper Lee was a "one hit wonder", but the "one hit" was more than enough in terms of contribution to American literature. Very sad news indeed.

1 + 1/2 hit Also her recently published prequel. And she did a fair amount of the research for In Cold Blood.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#95
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He gets a black man off of a rape charge No, he tries to get a black man off of a rape charge, but he fails. And, it is worth noting, the black man was (almost certainly) actually innocent, the alleged victim was actually the aggressor, and the black man is ultimately killed by a vigilante.

The black man is clearly innocent and is killed by a prison guard when trying to escape.

A one-armed man trying to climb a fence? It's not at all obvious that the official story was the real one.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#96
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not snobby in the slightest. A friend put it best: "George RR Martin is a great storyteller, but he's no great writer"

I find it odd that people would think a great story that's written down isn't by definition a great piece of writing.

You can have compelling characters and plot points but still do a shit job of writing them down. GRRM fits this description perfectly imo.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#97
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a hint: if it's science fiction or fantasy, it's probably not considered 'great literature'. Having everyone die in the end is bonus points for 'great writing'.

Well, GRRM did that one better and had everybody die in the beginning!

Haven't read those. I read about enough deaths in the news, to be honest, to be interested in having too many in my fiction.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#98

I loved "To Kill a Mockingbird" so much when I read it as a kid. The moral of the story seemed really obvious. In the last few years I came across this article which blew my mind and changed my perspective about the book's meaning a lot: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/10/the-courthouse-...

“If you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you’ll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks,” Finch tells his daughter. “You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view . . . until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.”

Excellently put! All sides of the political spectrum should learn from this, if not to get along with the, to them, despicable other side, than to beat them. Case in point: Until we stop calling Trump backers idiots, racists, etc. (http://thedailybanter.com/2015/09/a-new-gop-poll-proves-trum...) we will be plagued by the likes of him.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#99

I loved "To Kill a Mockingbird" so much when I read it as a kid. The moral of the story seemed really obvious. In the last few years I came across this article which blew my mind and changed my perspective about the book's meaning a lot: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/10/the-courthouse-...

> "If Finch were a civil-rights hero, he would be brimming with rage at the unjust verdict. But he isn’t. He’s not Thurgood Marshall looking for racial salvation through the law. He’s Jim Folsom, looking for racial salvation through hearts and minds."

One of these approaches persuaded people to come around to correct views. The other approach produced intellectual trench warfare and our current political gridlock. And Gladwell likes the second, not the first.

Does he have any idea what happens when you use force of arms to compel people to assent on the surface to beliefs they don't hold? The example of the Soviet Union should warn him that this is a bad idea. In particular, look at the Baltic states, which didn't really have a sense of national identity or distinction from Russia before Soviet rule, but are now fanatically nationalist and anti-Russian.

More to the point -- because they're culturally much more similar to the American South -- he should look at Ireland, Wales, and Scotland. Ireland shook off the Saxon yoke after its "Eight Hundred Years of Oppression", which did nothing to make the Irish into Englishmen; Scotland is close to recovering its freedom, reversing the verdict of the 1707 Acts of Union; Welsh nationalism is growing, and we'll probably see Welsh independence in our lifetimes -- even though Wales has been ruled by England since 1277.

The longer the American South is coerced instead of persuaded -- even if they're coerced to do the right thing -- the more they'll react like the other Celts over the water. (Especially the Lowland Scots, who are the people that most contemporary Southerners descend from. Donald Trump, for example, is a textbook Lowlander -- although admittedly he's not Southern.) I wonder what payoff the futures markets offer for Confederate secession in 200 years?

Re: Harper Lee has died

#100
post #39
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer George R.R. Martin “Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him.”

Not trying to be some literature snob, but GRRM can't hold a candle to the profound impact Harper Lee has had on American culture as a whole (not to mention that she won a Pulitzer and a Presidential Freedom Medal). It's almost insulting even bringing up a quote from ASOIAF.

Creating "meaning" from words is a joint effort between the words on the page and the reader. It's not a joint effort between the words on the page, the reader, and the Pulitzer committee.

It is snobbish to attempt to subvert the impact that a piece of writing has had on someone because it's not good enough or important enough by some "objective" standard. People should be free to find "meaning" wherever they wish.

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